ATRS AR-15 - Are they worth the price?
- Thread starter toddjc
- Start date
alberta tactical rifle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- calgary alberta
The tool kit is $100 from Brownells. Frankly you don't even need that. A $30 punch kit and a cheap hammer for the lower is all you really need but the AR essentials kit does make some things easier. You'll need the AR wrench for the upper which is included in the kit. Upper and lower blocks also included. For all the tools about $200. Recommend a used vice etc if you want to save some money. Or take a case of beer over to a buddy's house that has the tools.
I put this together. Granted the upper is an ADCOR but I pieced this lower together myself. Only needed two stores to get all the parts. The stocks were bought local. Had to wait a bit but that's it.
I actually consider the ATR rifle a branded franken rifle. You pick the parts they put it together. I don't view them as holding their value like KAC, Noveske or the high end LMT stuff just to name a few.
Well here's a much less hidden and convoluted example. I was looking for a Norgon ambi mag release for the above build. I looked at the sponsors prices. Could get one from ATR for $120. Imported one from Brownells $90 all in taxes and shipping. They had a coupon and shipping if you avoid UPS is reasonable. I saved over $30 on that. Very easy. All export/import rules/laws were followed.
Please tell me you do NOT honestly believe that your favored Knights, LMT or Noveske actually manufacture ALL of the parts they use to build a gun?
The favored makers in your world make SOME of their own parts just like we do, stuff like buffer tubes, gas tubes, lots of furniture are manufactured by other companies that ALL of the gun manufacturers purchase from.
IF 1 has plenty of time that they do not value, it is certainly possible to source anything for less than what 1 may find the parts for locally. Most people figure their time is of value to some degree.
Also using the costs from shopping in a foreign country skews your numbers. Especially when the supplier, ie Midway will NOT ship the product to Canada, which then says smuggling is required, which always saves money.
For guys purchasing 1 or 2 small items from several sources in a foreign country that skates under the $100.00 exemption, saves money as well as it negates those pesky EXPENSIVE permits and avoids having to deal with foreign exporters.
We figure it takes about 1/2 an hour to assemble an AR , once all the parts are fitted, hence we charge $75.00 to assemble an AR, but it is done with the CORRECT tooling and IF a part gets damaged, like a roll pin or such, it is OUR responsibility to replace it. And at the end of the day the ENTIRE gun has a warranty, just like Knights, Noveske, Bauer etc, the BIG difference is that you are dealing in the same country you live in and will get looked after.
If cheapest without a warranty is your thing fine, but rather than continue at every opportunity to slag us why not just admit we are out of your price comfort zone and move on?
alberta tactical rifle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- calgary alberta
I am certain he did.
The fellow who had a "problem" with his KAC carbine that was NOT a chance a warranty thing and I can not be more abundantly clear here, the problem was NOT in any way, shape or form a problem with the quality of the KAC gun, the wrong ammo was used being the root of the problem.
Try as we both did, collectively with the local dealer who he purchased the gun from and directly with KAC neither of us could get a replacement barrel extension or bolt head, both of which are proprietary to KAC. I know that the client even contacted Kevin Boland directly, and still no go. So we ended up replacing the entire barrel and bolt for him to solve the problem for him.
This is NOT a slight directed at KAC, they build great guns, the problem with many foreign made products on the whole and that is compounded with ITAR regulations is the hassle warranty or obtaining parts can be compared to locally made products.
The warranty issue is a bit of a red herring. First off all the parts I listed were retail prices. So every part actually does have a warranty and can be replaced if there are any manufacturer defects. If I damage the part or screw up then yes it's on me. Or I take it to a gunsmith and as you mentioned not too much or much time to have one put together. They are guaranteeing that they know what they are doing and will assemble it correctly. But let's look at the cost and what can go wrong. The most expensive components are the upper/lower, trigger, barrel setup. The rest are inexpensive parts that add up quick. But frankly what's to go wrong with them? If it's an inexpensive part you screw up then big deal. A few bucks and lesson learned (although I never had any issues) Your example lists helping someone with a failure that wasn't covered under warranty. do I have your written word that if I screw up a rifle I bought from you that you will always fix it at no cost and under warranty? Because you could even under your warranty tell me to go pound sand.
Honestly the warranty is good, but it's offered by all the major manufacturers. KAC, LMT, Armalalite, Stag etc etc. They all offer this. Right now I feel like when I'm at Future shop, Best buy etc when they try to get you by offering "extended warranty". It's practically pure profit for them. If it doesn't go wrong in the first bit it's probably never going to go wrong unless it's user fault which isn't actually covered.
I'm not slagging your product. It's a nice looking product with some nice parts and customized options. The price is the only thing I don't think is inline. As for the price being out of my comfort zone? It's not a matter of affordability, it's a matter of value for the price. If the value was there I would have bought one and I'd be recommending it to anyone asking about it. Hopefully some day that will be the case.
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Certain brands are certainly priced out of some people's comfort zone, however there are enough AR's on the market to cover every budget, At the end of the day nobody really gives a flying F' about what you run at the range, except the the guy in his underwear looking back at you in the mirror. 
Picking on someone else choices shows real class.
Picking on someone else choices shows real class.
First off I have no affiliation with ATRS, infact we are competitors in the retail business and sell many similar items such as Nightforce, however we don't manufacture anything. Having said that I value highly any product that comes in with the ATRS logo on it. We rarely see any trade in from ATRS but when they do I often scoop them up for myself. I had a ATRS AR come in in 300 Blackout/Wisper and kept the lower for a furture high end buid (300 is not on my caliber wish list). Rick was more than willing to talk about this gun to me and suggest a value used that was right on the money. I just scored an ATRS brake and that is also destined for another personal build. There is a value in dealing with Canadian manufacturers that sometimes cannot be measured in dollar comparisons. If price is a factor then so be it but I think a some of the concerns are that they are not a tacticool AR manufacturer made in the USA and once again if that is your main concern then buy a KAC or whatever. Rick has never done us wrong as a competitor and sometimes customer. Phil.
Phil,
The concerns are the markup is obscene and in reality it's a bunch of high end components from other companies put together (except for the upper/lower). My cost analysis shows that Joe blow not being a "manufacturer" can source the parts and put one together for a heck of a lot cheaper after paying full store retail? How is that possible?
I would also use ATR parts for a personal build if I found one used at a good price. Heck there's nothing wrong with the products Gieselle, Danielle Defense, Lilja etc produce. The lower and upper are also very nice. From what I'm seeing the upper and lower are the main items actually made in house. They do a good job and have a good design. There is a big premium over the German imported HERA HLS ambi lower though. But frankly if that was the only major premium then this would have been a very short thread. Unfortunately a large premium seems to be incorporated in every part which leads to a pretty big end cost.
The financial comfort zone thing by ATR was pretty over the top as well. It made me recall when I first got into this hobby. I had two rifles and one was a target 10/22. While visiting a gunstore in Grande Prairie I went to ask about rings for my 10/22 which to me was a big deal. It was my second rifle and the one I was going to be shooting all winter indoors. The response I got from that owner who is no longer in the business took every bit of will power not to tell him where to go. He told me that I asked a lot of questions and was at about $20 worth of questions. In other words I couldn't afford to be there and was wasting his time. I will never forget that. Today's person who is just looking or doesn't have a lot of money, knowledge etc right now is tomorrows frequent and high end customer. That comfort zone comment brought that incident to my mind.
I'm not a stranger to AR rifles. I'll leave it at that.
The concerns are the markup is obscene and in reality it's a bunch of high end components from other companies put together (except for the upper/lower). My cost analysis shows that Joe blow not being a "manufacturer" can source the parts and put one together for a heck of a lot cheaper after paying full store retail? How is that possible?
I would also use ATR parts for a personal build if I found one used at a good price. Heck there's nothing wrong with the products Gieselle, Danielle Defense, Lilja etc produce. The lower and upper are also very nice. From what I'm seeing the upper and lower are the main items actually made in house. They do a good job and have a good design. There is a big premium over the German imported HERA HLS ambi lower though. But frankly if that was the only major premium then this would have been a very short thread. Unfortunately a large premium seems to be incorporated in every part which leads to a pretty big end cost.
The financial comfort zone thing by ATR was pretty over the top as well. It made me recall when I first got into this hobby. I had two rifles and one was a target 10/22. While visiting a gunstore in Grande Prairie I went to ask about rings for my 10/22 which to me was a big deal. It was my second rifle and the one I was going to be shooting all winter indoors. The response I got from that owner who is no longer in the business took every bit of will power not to tell him where to go. He told me that I asked a lot of questions and was at about $20 worth of questions. In other words I couldn't afford to be there and was wasting his time. I will never forget that. Today's person who is just looking or doesn't have a lot of money, knowledge etc right now is tomorrows frequent and high end customer. That comfort zone comment brought that incident to my mind.
I'm not a stranger to AR rifles. I'll leave it at that.
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Absolutely god facking right. The financial comfort comment was insulting and downright a cheap shot at trying to mute a logical discussion. Not too sure i will buy from this company ever again. It sure damn felt to me yet again a gun shop insulting potential customers i.e. if you dont have the money please leave
I would expect (demand) atr to apologize for that please without explanations or justifications.
Thank you
Epoxy is right about the build price(s). A Canadian maker (such as ATRS) just doesn't have the "economy of scale" that U.S. makers have in their (and for their) large market. Another complication is that the market (i.e. pay) for skilled tradespeople in Alberta is very much inflated/overblown by the oil patch. It's hard to hold onto people unless you pay a similar wage that they can get elsewhere in this province.
I'd love to support a Canuck AR maker. It just depends how much extra it'll cost--a few hundred extra is fine with me provided it's with an accuracy guarantee (for example half moa as with Les Baers AR's). Then again, it'll depend on my financial situation....
I'd love to support a Canuck AR maker. It just depends how much extra it'll cost--a few hundred extra is fine with me provided it's with an accuracy guarantee (for example half moa as with Les Baers AR's). Then again, it'll depend on my financial situation....
I went out an bought the cheapest upper receiver from one manufacturer and the lower from another. Slapped on a cheap hand guard and fixed butt. Then spent a nice chunk of cash at ATRS for a match bull barrel & bolt. Tossed in a Geisselle trigger and the result is a rifle that resembles an old M16 A1 but shoots out of this world thanks to the first rate ATRS barrel and bolt.
Their goods are first rate but not cheap.
Their goods are first rate but not cheap.
