ATRS AR-15 - Are they worth the price?

Answer in short, Yes.

You are paying for quality from all areas. Fit, finish, parts, performance, and it being made to your request.

The other thing you are not looking at which makes the platform pricey, is the Product and Customer Support you receive from ATRS, and the fact that this support is here in Canada, and you deal directly with them, not a dealer.

That in my mind is piece of mind.
 
BenL said:
In your opinion, which part(s) do you feel is being overcharged in their custom ARs? Their lowers? Their uppers? The barrels they turn out? Finishing costs? Their hourly/Labour costs? Other?

Do consider also the volume they put out each year Vs KAC, Noveske, Hera or the likes when provide details the above. Are they 10% too high? 40%?

I'm a fan boy and have no problems saying so, but I'm trying to determine exactly how much of a "problem" it really is when all things are considered.
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Hey BenL,

I know you're a fan. Frankly if the price was right I would be too. I like the options, I like the look of the billet upper and lower. The only criticisms of the lower for me was that it should have the incorporated magwell guard on the left side like KAC and the other ambi lowers. Even then if the price was really good I would have gone that way too as they are very nice. The other features were cool as well.

The price on the rifle tested in the above article was $3700!!!

It's about $1000 too much. I could build one out of parts that's comparable for a lot less without the advantage of wholesale dealer pricing. Especially for a boutique non military grade rifle. It's the only rifle I've seen that isn't military tested and a must have brand that makes KAC look reasonable. A Les Bauer Super varminter is $2900 here in Canada. That's a very high end target rifle. A KAC $3150 with similar build to the one in the article. A Noveske $3200 ish for a comparable build. Those are high end, you pay for the name along with the theory that they are military grade rifles. Not so with the ATR.

Let's keep in mind they would be getting this stuff at the dealer/wholesale price not the after retail price I have to pay.

Let's do a comparable cost analysis here:

Lower build : $1100 paying retail pricing and putting together yourself (Actually a bit less but I've rounded up and not included selling off extra parts not needed). Top of the line parts. Spike T2 buffer, Tactical springs buffer spring, PWS enhanced tube, Spike tactical enhanced LPK ( includes ambi safety, KNS pins, ergo grip, SS pistol grip screw, coated trigger, enhanced trigger guard etc. You can sell off the trigger and guard), Norgon ambi mag release, B5 stock. Full ambi setup price includes a $200 match trigger. That's paying full retail and with above milspec parts. Not DPMS or other plain LPK, buffer tubes etc. Or you can just buy a KAC lower for $1150.

Upper. The HERA is again comparable. Stripped billet upper. $326 retail. Match barrel around $500 (Noveske 10.5 with gas block $467, Raptor charging handle $92, LMT enhanced BCG complete $386 for the full auto one (Chrome coated bolt). $300 for your choice of top end free float handguard. $100 for your choice of flash hider. $100 for miscellaneous parts. I hope I haven't missed anything here.

Total for Lower: (you can go cheaper for instance use JP springs with the spike coated trigger instead of a match trigger, go with a CTR instead of the B5 stock, $10 for buffer spring instead of the $50 unobtanium springs I used in mine etc). $1100

Total for Upper: $1771 That's again with top of the line parts that in some cases could be substitued for less expensive (That BCG is top of the line, and there are less expensive alternatives that will be just as good. Less on the handguard, less on the flash hider etc.

So paying full retail pricing I can put together a rifle that in my opinion is every bit as good and frankly I think better for a grand total of: $2871. That's with part by part retail markup already included. We are talking top of the line parts here, no DPMS parts kits or other decent but cheaper parts. So is there $900 worth of wrench work on this AR or is the markup a bit on the high side? I'll let you guys/gals decide on that one. Once again that $900 extra is after the other guys have already taken their profit for all the parts being sold. Typically buying a rifle by parts is the most expensive way to do it.
 
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alberta tactical rifle said:
The guys at Calibre Magazine seemed to think we made a better than average product.
PDF Here

KAC is certainly high end as well BUT many parts are proprietary. Try getting a barrel extension from them in order to salvage a barrel and bolt that had a non unwarrantable "incident".

The other part to consider with what we build is you get EXACTLY what you want, not simply what is offered.
To some this is a valuable option to have.
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Hello Rick
I sent you an somewhat important PM. Would you please take look?
Thanks
I got your reply , thanks.
 
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I have a couple of barrels from ATRS that are exceptional shooters. As that is the crux of the AR system needed for them to shoot exceptionally well, I have a hard time paying a premium for any other components (with the exception of triggers). This extends to some of the higher end stuff like upper and lower receivers -but that isn't limited to ATRS, I'd lump Spikes, Noveski and the like in there too.
I would not compare that equally to buying a complete higher end manufactured AR like Colt or Knight's - that is comparing apples to oranges IMHO.
 
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I'd like to see a bunch of these ATR ARs given to a Canadian unit during training for a workout and beating.

What could be better, a Canadian made boutique AR #### kicked by Canadian troops.

Military tested and approved?


Unless its already happened and I missed it.
 
Epoxy7 said:
Hey BenL,

I know you're a fan. Frankly if the price was right I would be too. I like the options, I like the look of the billet upper and lower. The only criticisms of the lower for me was that it should have the incorporated magwell guard on the left side like KAC and the other ambi lowers. Even then if the price was really good I would have gone that way too as they are very nice. The other features were cool as well.

The price on the rifle tested in the above article was $3700!!!

It's about $1000 too much. I could build one out of parts that's comparable for a lot less without the advantage of wholesale dealer pricing. Especially for a boutique non military grade rifle. It's the only rifle I've seen that isn't military tested and a must have brand that makes KAC look reasonable. A Les Bauer Super varminter is $2900 here in Canada. That's a very high end target rifle. A KAC $3150 with similar build to the one in the article. A Noveske $3200 ish for a comparable build. Those are high end, you pay for the name along with the theory that they are military grade rifles. Not so with the ATR.

Let's keep in mind they would be getting this stuff at the dealer/wholesale price not the after retail price I have to pay.

Let's do a comparable cost analysis here:

Lower build : $1100 paying retail pricing and putting together yourself (Actually a bit less but I've rounded up and not included selling off extra parts not needed). Top of the line parts. Spike T2 buffer, Tactical springs buffer spring, PWS enhanced tube, Spike tactical enhanced LPK ( includes ambi safety, KNS pins, ergo grip, SS pistol grip screw, coated trigger, enhanced trigger guard etc. You can sell off the trigger and guard), Norgon ambi mag release, B5 stock. Full ambi setup price includes a $200 match trigger. That's paying full retail and with above milspec parts. Not DPMS or other plain LPK, buffer tubes etc. Or you can just buy a KAC lower for $1150.

Upper. The HERA is again comparable. Stripped billet upper. $326 retail. Match barrel around $500 (Noveske 10.5 with gas block $467, Raptor charging handle $92, LMT enhanced BCG complete $386 for the full auto one (Chrome coated bolt). $300 for your choice of top end free float handguard. $100 for your choice of flash hider. $100 for miscellaneous parts. I hope I haven't missed anything here.

Total for Lower: (you can go cheaper for instance use JP springs with the spike coated trigger instead of a match trigger, go with a CTR instead of the B5 stock, $10 for buffer spring instead of the $50 unobtanium springs I used in mine etc). $1100

Total for Upper: $1771 That's again with top of the line parts that in some cases could be substitued for less expensive (That BCG is top of the line, and there are less expensive alternatives that will be just as good. Less on the handguard, less on the flash hider etc.

So paying full retail pricing I can put together a rifle that in my opinion is every bit as good and frankly I think better for a grand total of: $2871. That's with part by part retail markup already included. We are talking top of the line parts here, no DPMS parts kits or other decent but cheaper parts. So is there $900 worth of wrench work on this AR or is the markup a bit on the high side? I'll let you guys/gals decide on that one. Once again that $900 extra is after the other guys have already taken their profit for all the parts being sold. Typically buying a rifle by parts is the most expensive way to do it.
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The problem with your thinking is that "comparable parts" are NOT the same. There is a SIGNIFICANT difference in price between a Spikes trigger and a Geisselle Super 3 gun.
You apparently have not priced a PRI Carbon fiber free float tube.
The other big issue here is that you have an warranty devoid "Frankengun" that although cost you less is also worth considerably less in re-sale value. I am not saying it may not be a good reliable gun that may be accurate, but a dogs breakfast of parts put together is NOT going to get warranty issues resolved should you encounter problems. To some WARRANTY is worth something.
Buying our gun removes all of the if, and or but from the equation. We GUARANTEE the accuracy. We GUARANTEE ALL the parts.

And our guns are NOT military grade, they are considerably higher quality.
 
mikethebike said:
I must say, I've been looking at a high quality AR for about almost a year now and I still haven't made up my mind. I don't dish out 3000 easily on something restricted so I've been going back and forth on all the top brands and I'm still without an ar. At this rate I'm not even sure if i'll get one in the next 6 months.
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This gent beat me to it, 3000.00 is ok to spend but being restricted you are confined to special quarters to use it, a 3000.00 i cant use the Sunday morning with nice coffee on the corner of the picnic table on your land, seem to hurt more .... In my book that is... JP.
 
Epoxy7,

Do all of your prices include taxes and shipping? I don't see it.

Have you considered the time spend sourcing the parts? Sweet equity in a build is worth something yes, but we're not talking about a $125k home gut & rebuild.

What about the labour for putting it all together, as not everyone owns all of the tools, let alone all of the skills required to do so?

I'm not saying you're completely off on this nor am I right on all counts, but the above as put a significant dent in your pricing.
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
The problem with your thinking is that "comparable parts" are NOT the same. There is a SIGNIFICANT difference in price between a Spikes trigger and a Geisselle Super 3 gun.
You apparently have not priced a PRI Carbon fiber free float tube.
The other big issue here is that you have an warranty devoid "Frankengun" that although cost you less is also worth considerably less in re-sale value. I am not saying it may not be a good reliable gun that may be accurate, but a dogs breakfast of parts put together is NOT going to get warranty issues resolved should you encounter problems. To some WARRANTY is worth something.
Buying our gun removes all of the if, and or but from the equation. We GUARANTEE the accuracy. We GUARANTEE ALL the parts.

And our guns are NOT military grade, they are considerably higher quality.
Click to expand...

Not correct. I added $200 for a match grade trigger in those costs. The one in yours is a $300 trigger. So sell off the Spike coated trigger set, go with a regular buffer spring instead of the $50 Tactical springs ones I went with and you're right back on track. You can also sell the SS pistol grip screw as the HERA lower comes with one, and the aluminum trigger guard as it's built in. The KNS anti rotation pins are a nice addition that isn't necessary as well. You are right though the parts I costed out aren't all even. In some cases I opted for better parts.

I added $300 in the build for a free float tube on the upper. The PRI carbon fiber one is $330 at Midway. I added in $100 for upper springs and other parts. Take the $30 from that and you're right back on track again. My cost analysis was pretty dead on.

So my cost break down still stands.

Yup you get a warranty on the complete rifle if you don't buy the parts separately and put them together yourself (or pay minor fee to have a gunsmith do it). But usually if you buy a complete package from a company it's a lot cheaper than what it would cost you to pay retail and piece all the parts together plus it includes the warranty. So I stand by my earlier decision. The rifle is about $1000 over priced from my viewpoint.
 
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BenL said:
Epoxy7,

Do all of your prices include taxes and shipping? I don't see it.

Have you considered the time spend sourcing the parts? Sweet equity in a build is worth something yes, but we're not talking about a $125k home gut & rebuild.

What about the labour for putting it all together, as not everyone owns all of the tools, let alone all of the skills required to do so?

I'm not saying you're completely off on this nor am I right on all counts, but the above as put a significant dent in your pricing.
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Hey BenL

No but neither does the price of the ATR. Unless I was mistaken I went base cost to base cost. Most of the stuff you can get at only a couple of stores and package up together so shipping isn't a big deal. Or I can get local. I also added in a bit of extra in some spots to play with different parts etc. I have included a bit of buffer cost wise to play with for minor extra costs.

A gunsmith can put the parts together for you pretty quickly and without adding significantly to the overall cost. The reality is the AR is pretty easy to learn. I have now put 4 lowers together and I am not exactly good at that kind of stuff. There is so much info on the net. With things such as the PWS buffer tube, you bring down the skill and tools required to assembly it. The lower you can easily do yourself. The upper is pretty quick for most gunsmiths if you don't want to try that. Tools are fairly cheap and the cost can be deferred over other builds. Most of the tools you'll already have. A couple might be needed but not much. Mostly the punches, rubber mallet and the AR wrench. A lot of the AR tool kits include stuff that makes it easier but isn't necessary.

You are definitely correct though that time is money. But lets also remember that piecing together is the expensive way to get a rifle. A complete rifle from a company is significantly cheaper than piecing one together yourself even just in the parts section. At least that's usually how it is. Yet here we have the exact opposite case. :confused:

Most of the stuff right now you can get from 3 places here in Canada. All online. The main cost time wise is doing the research and knowing what's good and what you prefer. Otherwise hit the sponsor links above and look through their parts. The HERA stuff is a non sponsor but it's one store. A quick phone call and CC number. The rest on the computer. Not much effort or time really.

The only downside I see with the ATR is the price. If that's not an issue and you don't mind paying a lot for the convenience etc then you'll be very happy with this product. Personally I can't justify it and there are other options out there. But obviously others can. You can tell it's quality along with having good options. It's a customized AR15 rifle at a custom rifle price.

I should add that I will buy expensive firearms . The trick is I have to be able to justify the cost to myself. IE, it's a fantastic deal for what it is, there's nothing else out there like it etc. This is why I go through all of this. Because for me I have to make the best decision. Half the fun is researching the stuff out, learning about it and purchase decision process. I understand that might not be the case for others.

Anyways just my thoughts on this topic.
 
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I was really considering buying one but I found a good deal on a noveske that I couldn't pass up. The quality of it is really good, I couldn't bring myself to spend the extra 1000$+ on an ATR. That said I think one day I will fold and get one.
 
Epoxy I think your close but not correct. The parts are sold out of alot of places so you'd have to get a part here and there and the shipping would add up real quick to probably a few hundred dollars. I priced out building a custom rifle with top of the line parts and with shipping and taxes it was 3200ish. And another thing is custom build don't hold resale value as well as a ATR rifle. Plus you get warranty and no hassle building it. You would also need 200$ in tools to build it if you don't own them.
 
Epoxy7 said:
Not correct. I added $200 for a match grade trigger in those costs. The one in yours is a $300 trigger. So sell off the Spike coated trigger set, go with a regular buffer spring instead of the $50 Tactical springs ones I went with and you're right back on track. You are right though the parts I costed out aren't all even. In some cases I opted for better parts.

I added $300 in the build for a free float tube on the upper. The PRI carbon fiber one is $330 at Midway. I added in $100 for upper springs and other parts. Take the $30 from that and you're right back on track again. My cost analysis was pretty dead on.

So my cost break down still stands.

Yup you get a warranty on the complete rifle if you don't buy the parts separately and put them together yourself (or pay minor fee to have a gunsmith do it). But usually if you buy a complete package from a company it's a lot cheaper than what it would cost you to pay retail and piece all the parts together plus it includes the warranty. So I stand by my earlier decision. The rifle is about $1000 over priced from my viewpoint.
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I think your pricing is pretty accurate for a high end build. The only thing I'll add is I have no problem with ATRS or anyone that has a trade, billing that in the pricing for the stuff they make....IE machinist making $300 an hour or whatev WHILE he is machining which seems to be incluided with the price of uppers/lowers already which are $1000+ for the pair. But you can't inlcude that rate for the rest of the build because it ain't that difficult....maybe tack on $100 for putting together the other 95% of the gun you don't manufacture...it wouldn't take an hour.
There is a niche out there for people that equate the highest price = the highest quality....and no matter what you tell them, if they spent more then you it must be better then your's :)
 
BenL said:
Epoxy7,

Do all of your prices include taxes and shipping? I don't see it.

Have you considered the time spend sourcing the parts? Sweet equity in a build is worth something yes, but we're not talking about a $125k home gut & rebuild.

What about the labour for putting it all together, as not everyone owns all of the tools, let alone all of the skills required to do so?

I'm not saying you're completely off on this nor am I right on all counts, but the above as put a significant dent in your pricing.
Click to expand...

$200-$300 for tools
30 minutes to put it together. Dont know how? Watch YouTube

If you can spin a ratchet and push a pin, you can build an AR

It's not rocket science with milspec stuff
 
No one seems to be calculating in that it flat out costs more to do business here than in the United States where ATRS' competition is. Economies of scale come into play as well, with ATRS being the chief player in a small market while the comparable higher-end manufacturer's in the states have a much larger market, and subsequently move a larger volume of products over the same periods of time.

Guns in Canada are a small market.
Restricted guns in Canada are a niche market.
High-end AR15s in Canada are a fringe market.

You're gonna pay....because that's the cost of doing business with the market being the way it is. I for one am a grinning idiot, jumping with glee that we have a Canadian company producing AR15s of the highest quality. I support them 100%, understand the cost structure, and as I downsize my gun collection as I transform to a quality-oriented range of equipment, an ATRS rifle will be the flagship of the armada.
 
Matty308 said:
Epoxy I think your close but not correct. The parts are sold out of alot of places so you'd have to get a part here and there and the shipping would add up real quick to probably a few hundred dollars. I priced out building a custom rifle with top of the line parts and with shipping and taxes it was 3200ish. And another thing is custom build don't hold resale value as well as a ATR rifle. Plus you get warranty and no hassle building it. You would also need 200$ in tools to build it if you don't own them.
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The tool kit is $100 from Brownells. Frankly you don't even need that. A $30 punch kit and a cheap hammer for the lower is all you really need but the AR essentials kit does make some things easier. You'll need the AR wrench for the upper which is included in the kit. Upper and lower blocks also included. For all the tools about $200. Recommend a used vice etc if you want to save some money. Or take a case of beer over to a buddy's house that has the tools.

I put this together. Granted the upper is an ADCOR but I pieced this lower together myself. Only needed two stores to get all the parts. The stocks were bought local. Had to wait a bit but that's it.

DSCN0006_zpscfc2b5b2.jpg


DSCN0026-1_zps70043cac.jpg


I actually consider the ATR rifle a branded franken rifle. You pick the parts they put it together. I don't view them as holding their value like KAC, Noveske or the high end LMT stuff just to name a few.

Well here's a much less hidden and convoluted example. I was looking for a Norgon ambi mag release for the above build. I looked at the sponsors prices. Could get one from ATR for $120. Imported one from Brownells $90 all in taxes and shipping. They had a coupon and shipping if you avoid UPS is reasonable. I saved over $30 on that. Very easy. All export/import rules/laws were followed.
 
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