ATRS MS with 18.25 Faxon barrel

Suchee

Suchee

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So I measured my 18" Faxon Gunner barrel that's sitting on my AR. It actually measured to the bolt with a guide rod to 464mm or 18.25".

If I did want to use this as NR on my new ATRS MS as a hunting set up, I could just not install a gas block, and have in effect a bolt action having to rack the charging handle for every shot and keep it NR? I'm very worried about bumping into a CO, and having him crap his pants after seeing an AR15 look alike.

I ultimately want a 22" high end SS carbon wrapped barrel in 223 rem, but that requires some saving on my part.

I just want to get out in the wild and use this MS beauty legally with the barrel I currently have.
 
What Jiff said, but your idea of a straight pull bolt action would be fine too. As long as there is no means to operate the firearm in a Semi-auto manner (gas system), there is no required barrel length minimum, just like there is not on semi-auto rimfire either.
 
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Did you remove the firing pin? Seems like you're a little short either way.

Sell the Faxon buy something that is the right length.

Dont get ####ed.
 
That barrel makes it restricted.
Just sell it to pay for a non restricted length barrel.

How is it that you can afford a $1000+ receiver set but can't afford to buy a $300 barrel for it?

https://truenortharms.com/ar15_default_store_view/ar-15-parts/barrels.html

If you get caught with the short barrel on your rifle you are in possession of an unregistered restricted firearm and they will confiscate your rifle (probably forever without compensation), charge you with some pretty serious criminal charges that if convicted could restrict travel through US customs the rest of your life, drag you through the courts for who knows how long but you'll certainly have some huge lawyer bills when it's over, and they could also potentially revoke your PAL and confiscate any other firearms you have without compensation.

Is it worth the risk or do you think you should maybe just be patient and wait till you can actually afford to do it right?
Plus, getting caught with it could prompt the RCMP to re-evaluate the status of the MS and other ARish rifles. Do you want to be that guy?

Don't take it to a range like that either, at a range or not it is still an unregistered restricted firearm and therefore illegal.


BioPace said:
Did you remove the firing pin? Seems like you're a little short either way.
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How would removing the firing pin change anything?
 
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cr5 said:
That barrel makes it restricted.
Just sell it to pay for a non restricted length barrel.

How is it that you can afford a $1000+ receiver set but can't afford to buy a $300 barrel for it?

https://truenortharms.com/ar15_default_store_view/ar-15-parts/barrels.html

If you get caught with the short barrel on your rifle you are in possession of an unregistered restricted firearm and they will confiscate your rifle (probably forever without compensation), charge you with some pretty serious criminal charges that if convicted could restrict travel through US customs the rest of your life, drag you through the courts for who knows how long but you'll certainly have some huge lawyer bills when it's over, and they could also potentially revoke your PAL and confiscate any other firearms you have without compensation.

Is it worth the risk or do you think you should maybe just be patient and wait till you can actually afford to do it right?
Plus, getting caught with it could prompt the RCMP to re-evaluate the status of the MS and other ARish rifles. Do you want to be that guy?

Don't take it to a range like that either, at a range or not it is still an unregistered restricted firearm and therefore illegal.
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But it wont be a semi auto in my configuration. I will not have a gas block anywhere near it. OAL length will be way over 26" for my single shot bolt action MS.

Believe me, I understand the implications of having a 6mm too short of a barrel on a SEMI AUTO. Thats why I saw it prudent to ask here, hopefully the folks in the know
 
Suchee said:
But it wont be a semi auto in my configuration. I will not have a gas block anywhere near it. OAL length will be way over 26" for my single shot bolt action MS.

Believe me, I understand the implications of having a 6mm too short of a barrel on a SEMI AUTO. Thats why I saw it prudent to ask here, hopefully the folks in the know
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I am not a lawyer, but I do know the law reads that as long as your rifle isn't configured as a semi-auto centerfire there is no required minimum barrel length for NR status. I am working with Shaun at ATRS on the idea of a few builds that not only escape barrel requirement laws, but even evade the mandatory minimum OAL and still remain NR.
 
^^^^^^ This right there.
Exactly my rational, Technically I could have a 11.5ish" barrel on a bolt action single shot AR config and be over 26", but if we can "evade the mandatory OAL and still remain NR" , Thats some kind of cool!
 
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The FRT is for a semi automatic rifle. There are no other configurations listed. Maybe grab a 20” norc barrel in the mean time, last I saw they were like 95$.
 
Uisge said:
The FRT is for a semi automatic rifle. There are no other configurations listed. Maybe grab a 20” norc barrel in the mean time, last I saw they were like 95$.
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I did read the FRT, and yes your right it is for a SA. But if mine is not SA, maybe it would need a separate FRT. I'm worried my faxon barrel with a gas port even in manual action mode might raise too many questions.

Just inquiring , and will definitely get some used barrel or norc take off just to be safe while I wait for my $1000 gucci barrel
 
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Suchee said:
I did read the FRT, and yes your right it is for a SA. But if mine is not, maybe it would need a separate FRT.

Just inquiring , and will definitely get some used barrel or norc take off just to be safe while I wait for my $1000 gucci barrel
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My thought is, the officer stops you, asks about the rifle, you show him the FRT right? Your barrel length contradicts that FRT, and at best you pay a lawyer too much money. 18.5 is stupid, but the law nonetheless.
 
Suchee said:
But it wont be a semi auto in my configuration. I will not have a gas block anywhere near it. OAL length will be way over 26" for my single shot bolt action MS.

Believe me, I understand the implications of having a 6mm too short of a barrel on a SEMI AUTO. Thats why I saw it prudent to ask here, hopefully the folks in the know
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It's not as simple as that. You would have to have a new FRT issued which would involve having a verifier inspect it and submit paperwork which in my experience is a 3 month ordeal. Then when you wanted to install your 20 inch barrel you would have to have it inspected again as the serial number would now say that it is not a semi auto (another 3 month ordeal).
Plus, after all that pain in the arse they'll have your serial number on file linked to your name.

Just buy an appropriate barrel or don't assemble it.
You can't use common sense in anything regarding firearms, just remember that they don't want us to have any of them so they make everything as awkward and as difficult as possible and hope you'll give up to take up knitting instead.

Sell that Faxon barrel and buy something else, it isn't worth the trouble just to hang onto a barrel you shouldn't have bought in the first place.
 
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PinkyPlinker said:
If the FRT says Semi Auto, then it’s SA, no matter what “configuration” it is. There is no getting around this.
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This is what I would expect. Once a semi always a semi regardless of how many parts you remove. Simply not having a gas block makes the gun not function as a semi, but it doesn't stop it from being a semi by design.
 
PinkyPlinker said:
If the FRT says Semi Auto, then it’s SA, no matter what “configuration” it is. There is no getting around this.
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Unfortunately, I agree that you are correct. Not because of the law but because of our broken system.


I personally interpret the ACTUAL law the same way as 120ish does whereas the legal classification of the firearm would be dependent on it's CURRENT configuration. Not what it was. Not what it could be. But what it physically is right now.

However, we're dealing with a system where there is the LAW and then there is the "experts" who make up the law as they go.

If the CURRENT configuration of your firearm is ever questioned by an authority figure whose not clear on what the law is regarding it you can almost guarantee that charges will be laid, the court will be left to sort it out AND that the court will call upon the "experts" to help them decide.

Who is this "expert" that the court will call? It definitely isn't going to be you. That's right, it will be that same expert who makes up the law as they go.

The following is a quote from another thread. It is a letter to Rick regarding barrel length requirements for a rimfire barrel on a centerfire platform (MS). Read the wording CAREFULLY. I think that it's total BS but remember, these are the "experts" that the court will call upon.

alberta tactical rifle said:
The interpretation by the SFSS guys regarding short barrels in 22 LR on our MV and MS.

We tried.



Good afternoon Rick,

Your question has been referred to me. I understand the specific question to be the classification of a rifle with a 22 Long Rifle (rimfire) barrel mounted on the receiver of a semiautomatic centre fire rifle (the Modern Sporter), temporarily replacing the centre fire barrel. You also mention that the overall length will never be less than 660 mm (26 inches) on folding of telescoping stock models.

Given the above, the provisions which render a rifle a restricted firearm via a folding or telescoping stock, would not apply.

Thus the determining factor, and the precise point of your question, would be whether the 470 mm barrel length provision applies. In this case, I believe it does.

The description of the firearm clearly establishes that it is not a prohibited firearm, but also establishes the underlying firearm is capable of discharging centrefire ammunition in a semiautomatic manner, even though that is not what is intended when the 22LR barrel is installed.

The remaining factor is the length of the barrel, which would result in a restricted firearm classification if the barrel length were less than 470 mm; and with a longer barrel, non-restricted.

So if a non-restricted outcome is desired, the barrel length of the 22LR barrel must be over 470 mm (18.5 inches).

Regards,


Murray A. Smith
Manager,
Specialized Firearms Support Services
Firearms Investigative and Enforcement Support Services Directorate
Canadian Firearms Program
Specialized Policing Services
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Even though this letter is about installing a rimfire barrel (and not about the OP's question of altering the functionality of the platform) I believe the "experts" will still apply the same illogical logic.

It's clear that his position is that ANY adaptation of the firearm does NOT legally change the original classification and thus has no bearing on how the firearm is currently configured.

Once again, I believe this to be total BS but reality is this is what we're dealing with.

Do whatever you like but tread cautiously. We're dealing with a broken system that obviously doesn't lean in our favor.

I've been through the court system before (not firearms related) at a cost of $40k and can tell you first hand that it's not fun and it's not cheap.

Leave your MS at home until you get the appropriate barrel. The risk isn't worth the gain.

Just my .02
 
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cr5 said:
How would removing the firing pin change anything?
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Because I wasnt thinking. I was thinking about the firing pin protruding from.thr bolt face taking up some of his measurement- but with an AR15 BCG that doesnt happen unless the hammer is down.
The measurement is to the bolt face, not to the firing pin sticking out into the chamber.

But either way, it wouldn't be sticking out 1/4" which is what he is short.
 
jiffx2781 said:
Unfortunately, I agree that you are correct. Not because of the law but because of our broken system.


I personally interpret the ACTUAL law the same way as 120ish does whereas the legal classification of the firearm would be dependent on it's CURRENT configuration. Not what it was. Not what it could be. But what it physically is right now.

However, we're dealing with a system where there is the LAW and then there is the "experts" who make up the law as they go.

If the CURRENT configuration of your firearm is ever questioned by an authority figure whose not clear on what the law is regarding it you can almost guarantee that charges will be laid, the court will be left to sort it out AND that the court will call upon the "experts" to help them decide.

Who is this "expert" that the court will call? It definitely isn't going to be you. That's right, it will be that same expert who makes up the law as they go.

The following is a quote from another thread. It is a letter to Rick regarding barrel length requirements for a rimfire barrel on a centerfire platform (MS). Read the wording CAREFULLY. I think that it's total BS but remember, these are the "experts" that the court will call upon.



Even though this letter is about installing a rimfire barrel (and not about the OP's question of altering the functionality of the platform) I believe the "experts" will still apply the same illogical logic.

It's clear that his position is that ANY adaptation of the firearm does NOT legally change the original classification and thus has no bearing on how the firearm is currently configured.

Once again, I believe this to be total BS but reality is this is what we're dealing with.

Do whatever you like but tread cautiously. We're dealing with a broken system that obviously doesn't lean in our favor.

I've been through the court system before (not firearms related) at a cost of $40k and can tell you first hand that it's not fun and it's not cheap.

Leave your MS at home until you get the appropriate barrel. The risk isn't worth the gain.

Just my .02
Click to expand...

Then I was in to ATRS 2 weeks ago shaun told me we are back on for making a fixed stock rimfire or straight pull BA, as they had recieved a follow up email not long ago saying this was actually possible.

I agree the FRT does say SA. But the FRT is not law and while you could be charged by a confused cop and rifle confiscated, I would bet very strongly that it would be easy to prove your innocence the moment a verifier looks at the rifle. The law is the law, the FRT is an opinion taken into consideration during the charging, but if the FRT is incorrect or in-accurate, than its back to just the law.

It may help to get the firearm verified, and fax in the paperwork, in my experiences that takes max 1 week from the date of submission, then you would have a child FRT for your odd ball which may or may not help if you been charged.
 
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