ATRS Update: May 20th 2020 Re: MS / MH / MV

koesdibyo said:
What these gun-grabbing retards tend to not grasp is the fact the world runs on money. We can’t continue to print money and have it mean anything.

These business shutting down cause a loss of jobs for people. These people effectively now require to go on some sort of assistance, such as EI... which THEIR tax dollars went towards, so rightfully so.
EI and other handouts come from tax money brought in... by those that work.

You’ve effectively cut the hand that feeds you by closing businesses and increasing unemployment rates.

And let’s face it, we know most of the people screaming and REEEEEEing the loudest are all ones that get some sort of payout because they’re too incompetent to do anything meaningful with their lives.

We’’re going into a depression - and less businesses and employees means less income from the government.
Mind you, I don’t think they’ve grasped this concept - but it’s been my main means of conveying how stupid it is to layman people or those on the fence about the gun grab.

7 million guns, $1000/piece is 7 billion. I would like compensation for all my scopes and accessories that become useless now too (and as I’m a non criminal, and ‘would be compliant’ that’s not too fair to ask right?). So maybe $2000 on the low side per gun/accessories = 14 billion.

14 billion *if* we all comply and there’s no addition of logistical and man power required to actually take in the guns.
A loss of multi billion dollars each year from spending on these firearms and accessories, all of which is taxed and is revenue for Canada.
And don’t forget the newly laid off folks now tapping into an already overloaded/burdened EI/CERB market.

What a way to jump start the economy by effectively spending 14+ billion on something already proven to have 0 effects on ‘gun violence’
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Spend us into oblivion is the name of the game
 
I don't own any ATRS rifles but am willing to support any legal action against this OIC.
My stag-10 rifle has been erroneously labelled an AR 10 variant and also had it's previous notes to that effect, erased from the frt tables. I am indigenous and fully intend to do all my hunting this year and next with my stag-10. If I get arrested and my property seized I will be wholeheartedly looking forward to my day in court.
We are all in this together.
 
P11 said:
There is only one way which this ends. Economic meltdown.
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Good point.
The libs , dippers and greens will just put us in more debt or print more money to pay us and /or buy the country off like they've been doing.
It'll be like Weimar Germany down the road.
I just hope when The resulting chaos clears, whoever gets in power gives those who put us here what they deserve.
 
zupermann said:
Good point.
The libs , dippers and greens will just put us in more debt or print more money to pay us and /or buy the country off like they've been doing.
It'll be like Weimar Germany down the road.
I just hope when The resulting chaos clears, whoever gets in power gives those who put us here what they deserve.
Click to expand...

The only difference is at least they could burn their money to keep themselves warm.
 
45ACPKING said:
I don't own any ATRS rifles but am willing to support any legal action against this OIC.
My stag-10 rifle has been erroneously labelled an AR 10 variant and also had it's previous notes to that effect, erased from the frt tables. I am indigenous and fully intend to do all my hunting this year and next with my stag-10. If I get arrested and my property seized I will be wholeheartedly looking forward to my day in court.
We are all in this together.
Click to expand...

This is the best thing I've read on this topic so far. Thank you.
 
45ACPKING said:
I don't own any ATRS rifles but am willing to support any legal action against this OIC.
My stag-10 rifle has been erroneously labelled an AR 10 variant and also had it's previous notes to that effect, erased from the frt tables. I am indigenous and fully intend to do all my hunting this year and next with my stag-10. If I get arrested and my property seized I will be wholeheartedly looking forward to my day in court.
We are all in this together.
Click to expand...

The ban does not apply to indigenous peoples.
 
Shorerider said:
Poly won’t be happy until every legal gun owner is behind bars. The gang shootings will continue but they will have reached their goal of civil disarmament.
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The 3 Karen's are not only trying to prohibit FA. The latest letter Poly sent to BB office demands changes to remove basic democractic processes.

We are under direct attack by these 3.
 
steamy teabag said:
The 3 Karen's are not only trying to prohibit FA. The latest letter Poly sent to BB office demands changes to remove basic democractic processes.

We are under direct attack by these 3.
Click to expand...

They waged war and they’ll get a good fight. We’ll fight these actions through legal action and in the end the federal government will regret catering to those crazy lobbyists.
 
Shaun, let us know when you guys firm up on your legal challenge. I'd like to propose another option for 50% deposit guys: to convert my deposit with you into your legal fund. More than happy to do that.

Thread tagged, awaiting your next updates.

Best.
 
What is happening to this country of ours where hard working, entrepreneurial, law abiding Canadians supporting families and jobs can be unilaterally taken out of business on a whim?????

You play by the rules, you pay your taxes, you support your community, you do all that is asked of you and this is what you get in return?
Where is the justice in this?
 
steamy teabag said:
For the life of me I cannot understand why the 3 Karen's and their organization's are not getting served for restitution and damages.

Poly is directly attacking 49k employees and thousands of small businesses.

Hit back.
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I've copied and posted this before in another thread and the Original Poster has a seperate thread on this also but hit back at them legally. Tie them up in so many civil litigations it makes their head spin

They (Polysesuvient) are based in Quebec.
One of the quirks of civil litigation in Quebec, passed by past Quebec governments to discourage/prevent the plebes from suing the Government, is that you cannot be awarded legal fees as damages, unless the litigation was abusive (not frivilous....just abusive. Like burying their counsel in paperwork, knowing you will charged for every second your lawyer has to spend answering)

So even if you win, you lose. This is the tactic the Government of Quebec uses to get money out of people via Revenu Quebec, and more recently, by having any senior with any dementia or brain impairement (aneurism, stroke, etc...) be declared "wards of the state" so that the Gov't then takes over the person's assets and bank account to prevent any kind of "elder abuse", and of course, to guarantee their monies from income tax, inheritance tax, and capital gains tax (once - not if - they sell any immoveable the senior may own) get paid to them. Both tactics depend on a cost/benefit analysis: no one wants to spend $50k fighting the Govt over an assessment or grandma's life savings, knowing that even if they win, they'll still be out alot of money. Quebecers don't have that much disposable income, thanks to the tax regime.

Ask me how I know both of these.

In any case, the point is if we decide to file a litigation suit against them - in Quebec, naturally - they will have to defend themselves. Win or lose, they will have to pay their legal bills out of pocket.

I'm going to suggest we not only outnumber them nationwide, but we can outspend them. For years.

For a nominal amount per month, we could essentially sue them out of existence

Also FRT re-classification is not considered a Law re this, here is the original poster

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2020223-Reminder-The-FRT-is-not-law

With all the reclassifications happening in the FRT lately, it's important that we all remember that the FRT is not law. The FRT is just a bureaucrat's interpretation of the law as it relates to specific firearms -- it's like a Coles Notes of firearms law. While the FRT may be used to inform a police officer's decision as to whether or not to lay charges, for example, it has zero force and effect in court.

The RCMP FRT page says as much:

Legal disclaimer for public use

The Firearms Reference Table (FRT) is not a legal instrument. The FRT is an administrative document created by the RCMP's firearms experts who have, based on criteria in the definitions found in section 84 of the Criminal Code and the supporting Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited or Restricted SOR/98-462, and the Firearms Act, conducted technical assessments of firearms to assist law enforcement officers, customs officers, and officials responsible for the regulation of firearms with the identification and classification of firearms. The aforementioned Acts and Regulations are the prevailing legal authority with respect to firearm classification.
If you have guns like the Mossberg 715T or any of the other firearms that have been reclassed in the FRT but clearly do not fall under the enumerated models and their varants in the OIC, just a reminder: they're not prohibited just because someone changed a database record.... there has to be a basis in law. Obviously the Crown's argument will be around the word "variant", but that leaves them open to the question of why it wasn't considered a variant prior to the OIC, but is considered a variant now... did the meaning of the word "variant" change, or were they just incompetent before?

Case law is made by having actual test cases. If you own one of the newly-prohib guns that clearly fall outside the OIC, and the thought of a potential stint in prison bothers you less than living in a dictatorship, well.... do with this information as you will...
 
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Nightstalker said:
I've copied and posted this before in another thread and the Original Poster has a seperate thread on this also but hit back at them legally. Tie them up in so many civil litigations it makes their head spin

They (Polysesuvient) are based in Quebec.
One of the quirks of civil litigation in Quebec, passed by past Quebec governments to discourage/prevent the plebes from suing the Government, is that you cannot be awarded legal fees as damages, unless the litigation was abusive (not frivilous....just abusive. Like burying their counsel in paperwork, knowing you will charged for every second your lawyer has to spend answering)

So even if you win, you lose. This is the tactic the Government of Quebec uses to get money out of people via Revenu Quebec, and more recently, by having any senior with any dementia or brain impairement (aneurism, stroke, etc...) be declared "wards of the state" so that the Gov't then takes over the person's assets and bank account to prevent any kind of "elder abuse", and of course, to guarantee their monies from income tax, inheritance tax, and capital gains tax (once - not if - they sell any immoveable the senior may own) get paid to them. Both tactics depend on a cost/benefit analysis: no one wants to spend $50k fighting the Govt over an assessment or grandma's life savings, knowing that even if they win, they'll still be out alot of money. Quebecers don't have that much disposable income, thanks to the tax regime.

Ask me how I know both of these.

In any case, the point is if we decide to file a litigation suit against them - in Quebec, naturally - they will have to defend themselves. Win or lose, they will have to pay their legal bills out of pocket.

I'm going to suggest we not only outnumber them nationwide, but we can outspend them. For years.

For a nominal amount per month, we could essentially sue them out of existence

Also FRT re-classification is not considered a Law re this, here is the original poster

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2020223-Reminder-The-FRT-is-not-law

With all the reclassifications happening in the FRT lately, it's important that we all remember that the FRT is not law. The FRT is just a bureaucrat's interpretation of the law as it relates to specific firearms -- it's like a Coles Notes of firearms law. While the FRT may be used to inform a police officer's decision as to whether or not to lay charges, for example, it has zero force and effect in court.

The RCMP FRT page says as much:

Legal disclaimer for public use

The Firearms Reference Table (FRT) is not a legal instrument. The FRT is an administrative document created by the RCMP's firearms experts who have, based on criteria in the definitions found in section 84 of the Criminal Code and the supporting Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited or Restricted SOR/98-462, and the Firearms Act, conducted technical assessments of firearms to assist law enforcement officers, customs officers, and officials responsible for the regulation of firearms with the identification and classification of firearms. The aforementioned Acts and Regulations are the prevailing legal authority with respect to firearm classification.
If you have guns like the Mossberg 715T or any of the other firearms that have been reclassed in the FRT but clearly do not fall under the enumerated models and their varants in the OIC, just a reminder: they're not prohibited just because someone changed a database record.... there has to be a basis in law. Obviously the Crown's argument will be around the word "variant", but that leaves them open to the question of why it wasn't considered a variant prior to the OIC, but is considered a variant now... did the meaning of the word "variant" change, or were they just incompetent before?

Case law is made by having actual test cases. If you own one of the newly-prohib guns that clearly fall outside the OIC, and the thought of a potential stint in prison bothers you less than living in a dictatorship, well.... do with this information as you will...
Click to expand...

Give this man a standing ovation.

Honestly it all boils down to each person's individual circumstance. Do you have the time and resources in the unlikely event that you have to go to court over using a firearm now classified in the FRT as prohibited? You'll likely win, but what's that time worth to you?
 
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