Attention Gonic Muzzleloader Owners!!!

Silverback

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As you know Gonic Arms has been out of business for years and sabots for them have been almost impossible to find for quite a few years. Recently a Manitoba based company, Precision Rifle Custom Muzzleloader Bullets, had a run of the cupped base sabots made and they just started selling them in December. I bought some and they look like the originals and measure to the same specs, the only difference I can find is that they seem to be made of a slight bit stiffer plastic than the originals. I haven't tried them yet but it is great to have a source of supply for my trusty inline again. I have put a link below as I know that nobody but PR Bullets sells them. Oops, still not allowed, hotlink removed.

3w's.prbullet.com/gonic.htm
 
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I know this is an old thread but I just bought a Gonic Arms GA-90 50 cal Magnum carbine barrel/stock set/components for my T/C Contender carbine I should be picking everything up at the post office today.

I had found this site you are referring too and due to having 600 - 700 .429" bullets on the shelf including 150 + Speer 270gr Gold Dots (these would be my hunting bullet for now) and having sold my 44mag rifle/handgun I had nothing to shoot them in any more so I just ordered 500 of the sabots sure hope they work out...

This is my first venture into the world of muzzle loaders I've shot them but never loaded or cleaned them so if anyone has load info/recommendations/cleaning techniques they would like to share with me I would totally appreciate it.

:)
 
I have a GA-93. A trick I stumbled on a few years back, when my stash of Gonic .44 sabots started running low, was to use sabots normally intended for 45(.451) caliber bullets. Perfect fit and easy loading. Been doing it ever since. No accuracy or performance loss noted. As a matter of interest, the late Fred Rodney, Gonic Arms' founder, was a very good friend of mine. He is sorely missed. Hope this info is useful.
 
I have a GA-93. A trick I stumbled on a few years back, when my stash of Gonic .44 sabots started running low, was to use sabots normally intended for 45(.451) caliber bullets. Perfect fit and easy loading. Been doing it ever since. No accuracy or performance loss noted. As a matter of interest, the late Fred Rodney, Gonic Arms' founder, was a very good friend of mine. He is sorely missed. Hope this info is useful.

Yes it is and thank you for sharing.

I see that you are new here to CGNTZ so a hearty welcome to you and your timely advise I have two more questions for you...

1) Will .451 sabots only accept .451" bullets (45acp) or will they accept .452" (45 Colt) reason I ask is I have hundreds of .452" bulk cast & jacketed bullets from 200gr - 405gr for my 45 Colt/454 Casull revolvers/rifles it would be awesome to be able to expand my bullet selection to my .452" bullets I already have on the shelf I even have the new spitzer flex tip Hornady 200gr & 250gr .452" FTX that I would love to try out?

2) Care to share what powders/loads you use/recommend?

Its funny last year I hunted with my Robinson Arms XCR-L in 6.8 SPC one of the most modern/advanced non-restricted semi-auto hunting rifles in Canada and this year I am going to head out with one of the rarest in Canada in-line smoke poles...

Black bear season starts in April here in BC...

edit to add... Alix if you knew the father well would you possibly have the contact info for the son I am looking for the owners manual for the GA-90 and can't find one.

:cool:
 
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Camp Cook:
Happy to help out. No I am not a new member, but thanks for your kind words. I don't post very often, unless I believe my input would be worthwhile to another member.
The sabots I use are the ordinary black ones made by Knight, usually mated to .451-.452 bullets.
A caution: I favour 44 cal. bullets in my GA-93 and found that combination of bullet and sabot to be nearly ideal for my general use. Deer, bear, wild boar, varmints, etc. .50 caliber slugs for moose, elk. For that reason, I never bothered with 45 caliber diameter saboted bullets, so have no data for them. Plenty for .44 caliber, though. I can make that another post, if needed. Might make this one too windy. Plenty long, as is.

I'm afraid I lost touch with Dale after his dad died. No idea how to contact him, now. But... I might have a GA-90 manual tucked away here somewhere. Its for a .458 I had in the mid nineties. Same rifle, though. Since gave it to a deserving nephew. Handy little rifle. Best tree stand gun I ever used. You're gonna like yours for bear hunting. Did my share with mine. I will look for it over the next couple of days....tucked away in a box, somewhere. As soon as I find it I will give you a shout back.
Regards: Alex
 
Plenty for .44 caliber, though. I can make that another post, if needed.

I guarantee it is needed and I thank you ahead of time for any data you care to share.

The 500 .429 X 50 Gonic sabots from Precision Rifle arrived yesterday I pushed appr 150 bullets into them was very easy to do now I just need to find the time to get to the gun club and try them out.

I have another question I was warned to make sure I lube the breach plug with the correct lube or clean it after every shot so it doesn't get stuck in the barrel.

Do you have a lube that you could recommend for the breach plug?

and thank you for looking for the owners manual.

CC
 
tC Super Lube works well for me. You don't need to after every shot, but you do after every outing. Clean and lube.

But man, if you just got into it.... It's awesome. Super extended season, camo instead of orange and the challenge is suberb. Good luck and have fun!!! And welcome to Muzzle-Loader elbow!!! hAR!!
 
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I bought everything except a bore plug lube Friday I saw it but didn't now I needed it.

I live in BC never have to wear orange and unfortunately we no longer have a special muzzleloader season.

Used to be the same time as bow season I'm thinking in-line loaders became so accurate that they decided to drop the season.

Have you had any experiences with Blackhorn 209 powder I've been recommended to try it but I haven't been able to find any around here yet so bought 1 lbs of Triple 7 to get by with for now.

The barrel came with 40 430gr Gonic conical bullets and I now know where to get 8 packets of 20 I'm going to give the ones I have a try if they work good I'll buy the packs and get them shipped here.
 
I haven't tried Blackhorn at all yet. I had a pro hunter loader, then sold it cause the damn things just too heavy.... Then I bought TC's new one... Can't even remember the name now.... Anyway, because the thing was shooting 3 inches at 100 I just bought a pile of what was working, which was the 777 Pellets. I load 2-50s and a 30 for a 130 load.. And the pellets have spoiled me after using powder for years.... There's just so much you don't have to carry then and trip7 is so easy to clean. Blackhorn is supposed to be similar.

I'm from saskabush and those were the rules, and I get a full month extra season. So definitely worth it. Also pre rut you can pattern the bucks and they just don't see you coming yet. Anyway, I've been stuck in the Arctic for 2 years but going back this year... Anyone who says here is hunting here is lying. It's really just shooting.... So I cant wait to get back to my front stuffer an some bush.
 
Camp Cook:
Found the manual! It has instructions for the Models 87, 93 and 90. Sorry, thought I might have an extra copy of the book, but found only one. If you'd like copies of the material, pls pm me your mailing address and I will scan and copy the pages and send them to you.
No, you do not have to clean the breech plug after every shot. After each session, as CreamySmooth suggested. Any good commercial anti-seize grease designed for muzzleloaders will work fine with your GA-90. A cheaper alternative is ordinary white lithium grease. A trick I use all the time, is to wrap the threads with teflon plumbers' tape. Works equally well with breech plugs, as it does with percussion cap nipples and flintlock vent hole liners. For added ease of removal, simply smear a dab of grease on the plug before installing it.
I see you plan on using 270 grain Speer bullets for hunting. I would start at 100 grains and work up to the optimum load. No need to go beyond 120-130 grains, as the law of diminishing returns kicks in and you will get more blast and recoil for little real gain. Plus, you will need to be mindful of velocity, as these bullets are often used in law enforcement, so are designed for rapid expansion, rather than deep penetration. Personally, I would not choose these as a hunting bullet, primarily for that reason.
My experience has been that most muzzleloaders....the Gonic being no different, offer best performance with saboted bullets, with medium/heavy powder charges. More doesn't always mean better.
I have always preferred Pyrodex RS in mine. Also Goex Ffg, for light varmint loads. Triple Seven works fine, too. I haven't tried Blackhorn either, but it should work well, too.
Another bullet you can try....one of my favourites, is the 44/265 grain Hornady jacketed flatnosed bullet. This bullet, factory loaded in the 444 Marlin is a good performer on medium-sized game, like deer, bear, etc. It is also my personal choice for bear.
Again, start at 100 grains and work up to the optimum load for your rifle. Though I found 120 grain charges of RS performed very well with this particular bullet at average hunting distances...100-200 yards...100 grain charges performed equally well, with less recoil. If you shoot a lot beyond 200 yards or more, go with the heavier charge.
The last few years, my go-to bullet is a 44/310 grain cast lead, gas check bullet thrown from a Lee mould. Very hard hitting. In my GA-93, this flatnosed, Keith style bullet prints one hole right on top of the other at 100 yards, using 120 grains of RS. Worth a try. By the way, I've used this bullet with and without the gas check and found no appreciable performance difference between the two.
Hornady XTP bullets are kinda the "belly button" bullet that disappear off the shelves every hunting season. Great bullet for deer. I usually don't see a reason to load hotter than around 90-100 grains with these.
I see you managed to scrounge up some 430 grain, 50 caliber bullets. An excellent choice for all around heavy game shooting. This bullet likes 120-130 grain powder charges.
Hope some of this is useful.
Regards: Alex
 
Found the manual! It has instructions for the Models 87, 93 and 90. Sorry, thought I might have an extra copy of the book, but found only one. If you'd like copies of the material, pls pm me your mailing address and I will scan and copy the pages and send them to you.

Awesome pm coming shortly.

Just to confirm if the load is 120gr Pyrodex this would be equivalent to appr 100gr Triple 7?
 
Camp Cook
Theoretically 100 gr. Triple 7 should be about equivalent to an equal 100 gr. charge of Pyrodex RS. May be some small variation from one batch to another. I have noticed Triple 7 to seem a bit snappier, but hadn't chronographed it to see if it was more energetic than RS. Could be only my perception.... not borne out by actual testing. Food for thought, though. I may just test that theory, once the warmer weather returns.
As a matter of interest, I have always preferred using loose powder, rather than pellets. Maybe I'm just too old school, but, I find it also gives me more latitude, when it comes to adjusting powder charges. The pellets are handy, though.

Have fun!
Regards: Alex
 
Camp Cook:
Oldtimers kicking in again! Another tip: If you know someone who is handy with a metal lathe, etc., you can get them to make you a .500" sizer for your GA-90. One pass through the sizer, and your regular .503-.504 bullets are proper bore size for the Gonic. I have one of these, which Fred made specially for me. Simple rig, that works perfectly, every time. Just shove 'em through, lube and you're ready to go. I like the Lee REAL bullets in this role. 50/320 grainers.....big medicine. Another route, is having a custom mould built. I have a Lee mould in 50/465. This big solid pretty much duplicates the original 50/70 Sharps bullet, in appearance. Dynamite on moose and elk.

Alex
 
Thanks again for your thoughts...

I was able to contact the son of the original owner of the ML barrel he told me that his dad used to load this barrel with 120grs Pyrodex when shooting the 50 cal 430gr Gonic conical slugs.

So I'm now thinking that it should be very safe to work up to 120grs Triple 7 when loading the 270gr - 300gr sabots and yes I understand that I do not need to try and push any bullets faster than that and I actually have no intentions of pushing them hard in this small Contender carbine I have to many other centerfire rifles if I have that need.

I now have everything boxed/bagged up and ready to go just need to get over to the gun club now why is it I am always running out of time?

My wife and I are heading over to check out a possible new to us house this afternoon so no time to play today. :rolleyes:

:canadaFlag:
 
Camp Cook:
Oldtimers kicking in again! Another tip: If you know someone who is handy with a metal lathe, etc., you can get them to make you a .500" sizer for your GA-90. One pass through the sizer, and your regular .503-.504 bullets are proper bore size for the Gonic. I have one of these, which Fred made specially for me. Simple rig, that works perfectly, every time. Just shove 'em through, lube and you're ready to go. I like the Lee REAL bullets in this role. 50/320 grainers.....big medicine. Another route, is having a custom mould built. I have a Lee mould in 50/465. This big solid pretty much duplicates the original 50/70 Sharps bullet, in appearance. Dynamite on moose and elk.

Alex


Just saw this thanks for the info I remember reading somewhere about sizing regular cast bullets to .500"...
 
...... And the pellets have spoiled me after using powder for years....




I have NEVER bought a batch of pellets (Pyrodex) that were NOT contaminated.

numerous pellets failed to ignite properly.

this has happened several times with different lots, different purchase dates from different businesses

I went back to loose powder and have never had another issue. I even leave it in my muzzy for a couple days while hunting and not have issues.
 
My older son and I finally made it to the range today with the Gonic barrel installed we only shot Bullet Barn 300gr FN BB in the Gonic sabots with 100gr Triple 7 & super old Win 209 primers this was the first time I had ever loaded a ML was quite the experience...

Only fire appr 15 shots but it was enough to see that there was potetial I actually put two shots @ 100 yards 1 1/2" apart one in the bull the other high left.

Also had my almost 4 year old son with me and he was getting cold so we packed up.

The primers didn't ignite on about 3 occasions but fired after we broke open and reset the trigger slamming the action closed hard also helped.
 
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