Attention SKS collectors - new info Factory 625 from Marstar

Claven2

Claven2

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Marstar just posted a bunch of photos on their new Chinese SKS military rifles being pulled, cleaned, pinned and re-packaged for transport to Canada.

Some of the pics show the rifles in the original factory crates being opened for the first time.

The photos are all of Factory 625 guns. On the side of the crate are some characters, the number "70" and the number "256".

What this tells me is two things:

1) What we think is Factory "625" is actually Factory "256".
2) It's VERY probable that 1970 is the year of manufacture for the guns in this crate.

We know that all the guns North Sylva brought in were in either the 1,5XX,### to 1,6XX,### range. All the guns depicted in Marstar's photos are also in this range.

We know that for Factory 26, the number in the "millions" slot is the date of manufacture added to 1956.

If we assume Chinese military serial numbering follows a standard, which seems logical, then these guns starting in "1 millions" are 1970's production and Factory "256" may have started production in 1969.

This is logical and fits well with estimates on what era these previously "625" guns were made. By 1969, all the features we see on these "256" guns were already adopted at Factory 26, so we can assume they were pretty standard at the other factories in this timeframe.

While I admit the year of manufacture theory is far from concrete info given I only have a picture of one crate go off, I'm comfortable we can safelt assume that Factory "625" is really Factory "256".

If I'm right, we may have to re-think how we've been translating these triangle codes - the larger outer code may well be the last digit, not the first!

Thoughts?

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driver71 said:
Maybe they were just taking the cosmo off that particular rifle for the pics sake?????
Click to expand...

They show two different rifles from that same crate (or at least from the same batch of crates), both are what we have been referring to as "625". From the pics of the crate when freshly opened, I'm convinced this is a factory crate, untouched since shipped to the depot. This matches the Marstar ad copy.

It's reasonable to assume they are all from the same factory and that the factory is in fact called "256".

As for why Marstar is having them degreased and re-packaged in cardboard, you'd have to ask them that. I suspect it's because of shipping weight and freight charges, as well as ease of shipment to customers once in Canada.

They indicated on their FB page they directed all the crates and paperwork to destruction and that they did not understand why someone would care when a rifle was made or details about the factory.

I was disappointed to read this as it's short sighted. Someone wanting a blaster will buy one SKS from Marstar, throw it into a tapco stock and go shoot the heck out of it.

A collector, on the other hand, might want to buy several different examples of one or many codes by production year, collect features, etc. and is far more likely to buy several SKS rifles. I would think Marstar would want to cultivate a collector following for these rifles as it would only help sales.

If folks remember when they imported Yugo Mausers, no-one knew anything about them. Marstar posted some extensive background info on their site about those guns and it help kickstart people collecting Yugo firearms and certainly helped drive sales.

There's even books written about colelcting chinese SKS rifles, code varieties, etc. Mostly it's fileld with educated guesswork and speculation. It's too bad that the info to better understand given factories, how to date these rifles, etc. is readily avaialble to the importers, but they are not at all interested in collecting or diseminating that info.
 
Claven2 said:
Marstar just posted a bunch of photos on their new Chinese SKS military rifles being pulled, cleaned, pinned and re-packaged for transport to Canada.

Some of the pics show the rifles in the original factory crates being opened for the first time.

The photos are all of Factory 625 guns. On the side of the crate are some characters, the number "70" and the number "256".

What this tells me is two things:

1) What we think is Factory "625" is actually Factory "256".
2) It's VERY probable that 1970 is the year of manufacture for the guns in this crate.

We know that all the guns North Sylva brought in were in either the 1,5XX,### to 1,6XX,### range. All the guns depicted in Marstar's photos are also in this range.

We know that for Factory 26, the number in the "millions" slot is the date of manufacture added to 1956.

If we assume Chinese military serial numbering follows a standard, which seems logical, then these guns starting in "1 millions" are 1970's production and Factory "256" may have started production in 1969.

This is logical and fits well with estimates on what era these previously "625" guns were made. By 1969, all the features we see on these "256" guns were already adopted at Factory 26, so we can assume they were pretty standard at the other factories in this timeframe.

While I admit the year of manufacture theory is far from concrete info given I only have a picture of one crate go off, I'm comfortable we can safelt assume that Factory "625" is really Factory "256".

If I'm right, we may have to re-think how we've been translating these triangle codes - the larger outer code may well be the last digit, not the first!

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

you made all those assumptions from numbers on the side of a crate.
i hardly call that evidence.
 
Oh, I agree it's speculation at best, but given the near total lack of any proof wrt chinese codes outside of Factory 26, it's as close to "proof" as anyone has been offering up - perhaps more so ;)

Remember, when Howie Bearse firststarted translating the triangle glyphs, all he had to go on was in-hand rifle examples. His method of translating the numbers is probably not based on anything more concrete than this.

I'm hoping he chimes in for comment one way or the other. Would love to read his take on my theory.
 
I find Claven2's speculations most interesting.

There are a few things that we DO know for sure.

1. China is disposing of some of its older-model, militarily obsolete rifles in return for hard cash.

2. Granted, in many other ways, they still treat us as enemies and their own people as mushrooms. Witness all those websites their people can't view, including such innocent ones as FB, where their people might actually discover that the rest of the world doesn't hate them but, rather, is scared spitless of their Government.

3. China has always been very closed-mouthed about military production facilities, maintaining what we think of as wartime security even on relatively-harmless information.

4. There still are GERMAN ordnance codes from the FIRST World War that we don't have figured out yet. My handbook of SECOND World War codes has a lot of places marked "Unknown". Codes from China are MUCH worse.

5. There is room for speculation based on informed opinion. It is only by starting with speculation based on informed opinion that we ever will sort out anything...... unless China is willing just to turn over all their factory records to us, and there will be a hockey game in Hell before that happens.

6. Friend Claven2 has made some interesting advances. Let's see how right he might be. I think even he wants to know that.

7. China still has 30,000 Model 1879 Lee rifles in .43 calibre..... and I want one. I'm just hoping that once they get to the back of all those crates and crates of unfired SKSs, that they turn out a few racks of those!

I say kudos to Claven2 for even taking the chance to try to work some of this out.
 
I'm not seeing it on their page, can you please link it? I'm at work and satellite internet is very slow when its raining so its tough to browse.
 
the dating of the Chinese sks follows the following formula which has worked for factory triangle 26 guns but may not for all factories.
below 1 million serial number is 1956
1 million is 1957
2 million 1958
10 million 1966 and so on why did someone assume 1 million is 1970????? also why is factory triangle 625 factory 256????????? while it is true that China numbers their factories the factory code stamp is what it is, a code. also be advised many codes can come from the same assembly shop. Not all sks carbines are built and assembled in one factory, rather they are shipped as parts to an assembly place in many cases. also they use factory codes to make their production look larger than it really is. Another fact is whether the gun has stamped or milled parts has no interest to the Chinese Military as all parts meet specification and its true for most guns to end up having both . the exception is factory triangle 26 which made all its own parts and was a military gun factory ( Chinese factories all are required to be manufacturers of Military items as needed so many make Military stuff as well as there usual commercial items this way dedicated arsenals are not necessary and the system has all its factories spread out so they cannot be captured as in WW2)
 
howiebearse said:
why did someone assume 1 million is 1970????? also why is factory triangle 625 factory 256?????????
Click to expand...

Hi Howie,

It is my musings that tis may be the case for FACTORY 625 ONLY. These guesses are based only on the above photo of a crate containg Factory 625 SKS rifles taken by a Marstar rep in China who was over purchasing an entire storehouse of these rifles still in original factory crates.

The side of the crate was numbered with what appears to be a year (1970) and a factory code (256). All the rifles inside were 1 million series factory 625 guns.

The logic is that the crate may indicate that the symbol we read as "625" might actually be read by the Chinese as "256".

The next leap of logic was that IF factory 625 followed a similar serial number convention to Factory 26, meaning the millions digit indicates the year of manufacture starting with the first year of produciton being zero, and IF the 1 million series 625 guns were made in 1970, which seems possible, then the first year that factory 625 made the SKS may be 1969.

Again, these are just educated guesses that I personally think plausible.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
 
I would not take any info off that crate as evidence

that crate could have a system of ID that is a series of numbers and letters it is not to say that it is info of factory and date which is useless to them (anyone handling the crate only would want to know contents.) The Chinese are very protective of any information on these and any other guns even tho they are considered obsolete. What I was told by the buyer from Century having bought allot of guns from them is.
Factories have numbers but these numbers are not reflected in the code. example factory 296 or late known as 0296 is using triangle 26

Assembly shops: parts are made all over China to Military specification. They are shipped to assembly shops to be made into completed weapons. They are assigned factory codes at that time with many codes coming from the same shop.
Reason for many codes? this system may be used to show where that consignment is destined to go. The reason i believe is that codes throw off anyone trying to figure out Chinas capacity for manufacture of Military arms. if you check Chinese ammo they have more than 35 different headstamp factory codes. Peter Kokalis once told me that over 150 factory codes are possible in Chinese sks carbines.
 
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