Axis haters beware.

Me either...but depending on how much you hunt or often you pack a gun its gonna get damaged. I have quite a few friends who have lost expensive guns out of the back of trucks dropped in the woods as it wasn't tied properly onto an ATV, left learning against a tree...go camo!!! :p or dropped into a lake. It happens.

Wow, just wow.
 
???

Just like anything else it can be lost...if its not in your hands ie direct control s**t happens out in the woods and it can be lost.

I'm not going to buy the cheapest thing on the shelf, in case something happens to it. I'd rather spend more and have something reliable, solid, AND SHOOTS...;) Buy quality, buy once. Same reason I don't drive the cheapest, low end truck or car I can find either, just in case someone runs into me...

Savage should strive to make a better product, instead of trying to make the cheapest.

There is a reason that most companies do not make low end products, it drags the brand down, but when you are at the bottom I guess it doesn't matter...
 
Here is a group of mine at a hundred with my Axis in .223. I pulled two. The circle is one inch in diameter.

ToycanonandGroupsfrom223762x39006.jpg
 
I'm not going to buy the cheapest thing on the shelf, in case something happens to it. I'd rather spend more and have something reliable, solid, AND SHOOTS...;) Buy quality, buy once. Same reason I don't drive the cheapest, low end truck or car I can find either, just in case someone runs into me...

Savage should strive to make a better product, instead of trying to make the cheapest.

There is a reason that most companies do not make low end products, it drags the brand down, but when you are at the bottom I guess it doesn't matter...

Take a look at most of the new remingtons and what they did to marlin:rolleyes:

The first time out with a new rifle and shooting decent groups i can imagine it will get better as he spends more time with it.

A rifle is a tool, the cheaper rifles are what they are a no frills tool, doesn't mean they won't work well they just don't have the fit, finish or the hype of something more exspensive
 
Sometimes I read these threads here on CGN and picture some hunters sitting around a camp fire with a dialog similar to a chick flick with all the digging and catty talk about who wears or shoots what etc. :rolleyes:

To me as long as the person is SAFE and enjoying themselves then who cares what they wear or shoot?

Folks it's hunting... not a fricken fashion show. :D
 
Take a look at most of the new remingtons and what they did to marlin

Exactly my point. bean counters trying to do everything on the cheap. Look what its done to a 200 year old company that had a great rep.;)

The 'best' deal is not always the cheapest...

Ive seen a 710 put 10 shots into an inch, but there's more to a rifle then accuracy isnt there...:)
 
A hunting rifle and its ammunition need be no more accurate than is required to hit the intended target at the intended range. Thus a moose gun need not be as accurate as a prairie dog gun. I've been somewhat surprised on a number of occasions to find that a rifle which produced very good accuracy at 100 yards didn't do so well at longer ranges, in one case a rifle that shot consistent MOA groups at 100 yards would barely hold 4 MOA at 200 yards. It would be interesting to see some 300 yards groups from these rifles. While the group size is not critical to big game hunting, the placement of the first cold bore shot is; that first shot is the most important shot from the rifle. The point of shooting a 300 yard group is to determine if the potential of a first round hit on a big game sized target remains viable at unknown ranges. Although my preference would be to take several cold bore shots at a target over a period of time, not everyone has the luxury of doing so.

If the purpose of the rifle is to provide an inexpensive but accurate platform with which to spend a pleasant day at the range, all is good, but a hunting rifle needs to be more than that. A hunting rifle should first and foremost be reliable under the conditions it will be used. A hunting rifle should instill confidence, therefore it must be accurate (enough) reliable, and easy to use. The hunting rifle should fit the shooter. If you find the stock of your rifle is too long, the felt recoil will be more intense, the eye relief will be more difficult to adjust, and the rifle will be slower and less natural to use under conditions that demand speed. That does not instill confidence. But it might prove difficult to knock an inch off an inexpensive plastic stock. If an aftermarket stock must be installed to allow the rifle to fit the shooter, the cost of the rifle then becomes less attractive.

The hunting rifle should allow itself to quick handling and to quick cycling, as that instills confidence. Some inexpensive rifles have a stiff bolt lift, although I don't know if this applies to the Axis. If you must drop the rifle to waist hight in order to have sufficient leverage to manipulate the action, the increased time it takes to make a follow-up shot might well cost you that animal. That does not instill confidence. IMHO, if the bolt cannot be easily cycled at the shoulder, it needs attention, and this attention comes at a price; about $100/hr for shop time.

What I'm getting at is that big game hunting is a demanding endeavor. Your rifle needs to be up to the task, not only for the game you hunt, but also under the conditions that are typical in your hunting area. Just as you can run the 100 in a pair of work boots, your performance will not be as good as if you ran it in a pair of sneakers, and the amount of effort you put into completing the exercise will be greater. The same applies to the selection of a proper hunting rifle, the bargain basement rifle will be more difficult to use under demanding conditions.

If you purchase a hunting rifle based on price alone, the reduced cost had to come from somewhere. I am under the impression that the typical retail price of a firearm is 6X the cost of manufacturing. If I'm correct, a rifle that retails for $300 therefore costs $50 to produce. What are you willing to do for $50? The chances of taking home a $50 firearm that is suitable to the demands of big game hunting is questionable, particularly if you hunt in tough conditions. A better option is to buy used if you're on a tight budget. Perhaps the litmus test is this: if you could afford to purchase a high end custom rifle, would you base it on an Axis action? Why?
 
A hunting rifle and its ammunition need be no more accurate than is required to hit the intended target at the intended range. Thus a moose gun need not be as accurate as a prairie dog gun. I've been somewhat surprised on a number of occasions to find that a rifle which produced very good accuracy at 100 yards didn't do so well at longer ranges, in one case a rifle that shot consistent MOA groups at 100 yards would barely hold 4 MOA at 200 yards. It would be interesting to see some 300 yards groups from these rifles. While the group size is not critical to big game hunting, the placement of the first cold bore shot is; that first shot is the most important shot from the rifle. The point of shooting a 300 yard group is to determine if the potential of a first round hit on a big game sized target remains viable at unknown ranges. Although my preference would be to take several cold bore shots at a target over a period of time, not everyone has the luxury of doing so.

If the purpose of the rifle is to provide an inexpensive but accurate platform with which to spend a pleasant day at the range, all is good, but a hunting rifle needs to be more than that. A hunting rifle should first and foremost be reliable under the conditions it will be used. A hunting rifle should instill confidence, therefore it must be accurate (enough) reliable, and easy to use. The hunting rifle should fit the shooter. If you find the stock of your rifle is too long, the felt recoil will be more intense, the eye relief will be more difficult to adjust, and the rifle will be slower and less natural to use under conditions that demand speed. That does not instill confidence. But it might prove difficult to knock an inch off an inexpensive plastic stock. If an aftermarket stock must be installed to allow the rifle to fit the shooter, the cost of the rifle then becomes less attractive.

The hunting rifle should allow itself to quick handling and to quick cycling, as that instills confidence. Some inexpensive rifles have a stiff bolt lift, although I don't know if this applies to the Axis. If you must drop the rifle to waist hight in order to have sufficient leverage to manipulate the action, the increased time it takes to make a follow-up shot might well cost you that animal. That does not instill confidence. IMHO, if the bolt cannot be easily cycled at the shoulder, it needs attention, and this attention comes at a price; about $100/hr for shop time.

What I'm getting at is that big game hunting is a demanding endeavor. Your rifle needs to be up to the task, not only for the game you hunt, but also under the conditions that are typical in your hunting area. Just as you can run the 100 in a pair of work boots, your performance will not be as good as if you ran it in a pair of sneakers, and the amount of effort you put into completing the exercise will be greater. The same applies to the selection of a proper hunting rifle, the bargain basement rifle will be more difficult to use under demanding conditions.

If you purchase a hunting rifle based on price alone, the reduced cost had to come from somewhere. I am under the impression that the typical retail price of a firearm is 6X the cost of manufacturing. If I'm correct, a rifle that retails for $300 therefore costs $50 to produce. What are you willing to do for $50? The chances of taking home a $50 firearm that is suitable to the demands of big game hunting is questionable, particularly if you hunt in tough conditions. A better option is to buy used if you're on a tight budget. Perhaps the litmus test is this: if you could afford to purchase a high end custom rifle, would you base it on an Axis action? Why?

Well put Boomer.
 
A hunting rifle and its ammunition need be no more accurate than is required to hit the intended target at the intended range. Thus a moose gun need not be as accurate as a prairie dog gun. I've been somewhat surprised on a number of occasions to find that a rifle which produced very good accuracy at 100 yards didn't do so well at longer ranges, in one case a rifle that shot consistent MOA groups at 100 yards would barely hold 4 MOA at 200 yards. It would be interesting to see some 300 yards groups from these rifles. While the group size is not critical to big game hunting, the placement of the first cold bore shot is; that first shot is the most important shot from the rifle. The point of shooting a 300 yard group is to determine if the potential of a first round hit on a big game sized target remains viable at unknown ranges. Although my preference would be to take several cold bore shots at a target over a period of time, not everyone has the luxury of doing so.

If the purpose of the rifle is to provide an inexpensive but accurate platform with which to spend a pleasant day at the range, all is good, but a hunting rifle needs to be more than that. A hunting rifle should first and foremost be reliable under the conditions it will be used. A hunting rifle should instill confidence, therefore it must be accurate (enough) reliable, and easy to use. The hunting rifle should fit the shooter. If you find the stock of your rifle is too long, the felt recoil will be more intense, the eye relief will be more difficult to adjust, and the rifle will be slower and less natural to use under conditions that demand speed. That does not instill confidence. But it might prove difficult to knock an inch off an inexpensive plastic stock. If an aftermarket stock must be installed to allow the rifle to fit the shooter, the cost of the rifle then becomes less attractive.

The hunting rifle should allow itself to quick handling and to quick cycling, as that instills confidence. Some inexpensive rifles have a stiff bolt lift, although I don't know if this applies to the Axis. If you must drop the rifle to waist hight in order to have sufficient leverage to manipulate the action, the increased time it takes to make a follow-up shot might well cost you that animal. That does not instill confidence. IMHO, if the bolt cannot be easily cycled at the shoulder, it needs attention, and this attention comes at a price; about $100/hr for shop time.

What I'm getting at is that big game hunting is a demanding endeavor. Your rifle needs to be up to the task, not only for the game you hunt, but also under the conditions that are typical in your hunting area. Just as you can run the 100 in a pair of work boots, your performance will not be as good as if you ran it in a pair of sneakers, and the amount of effort you put into completing the exercise will be greater. The same applies to the selection of a proper hunting rifle, the bargain basement rifle will be more difficult to use under demanding conditions.

If you purchase a hunting rifle based on price alone, the reduced cost had to come from somewhere. I am under the impression that the typical retail price of a firearm is 6X the cost of manufacturing. If I'm correct, a rifle that retails for $300 therefore costs $50 to produce. What are you willing to do for $50? The chances of taking home a $50 firearm that is suitable to the demands of big game hunting is questionable, particularly if you hunt in tough conditions. A better option is to buy used if you're on a tight budget. Perhaps the litmus test is this: if you could afford to purchase a high end custom rifle, would you base it on an Axis action? Why?

An Ak-47 costs alot less then 50 dollars to produce and is one of the all time greatest rifles. I'd feel more then confident shouldering an axis in a hunt, infact i'd prefer it. I spend the money on the bench shooters, out in the field i want something that can take some scratches and abuse, is nice and light and is accurate enough where cycling another round is not needed. Axis performs all of this. Amazing rifle for the money.
 
Whenever someone asks me what I think they should get for their first deer rifle, I recommend the Axis package in .308, knowing full-well if they like it then they'll end up buying more anyways. I've not had anyone complain about the out-of-box performance of their new guns, and after helping many with sight-in I have yet to see one shoot worse than 1.5" - great for a budget hunter. Tighten the bases and rings properly and then the fun begins.


I would nt hesitate to get the package gun in .223 for predators either.
 
Me either...but depending on how much you hunt or often you pack a gun its gonna get damaged. I have quite a few friends who have lost expensive guns out of the back of trucks dropped in the woods as it wasn't tied properly onto an ATV, left learning against a tree...go camo!!! :p or dropped into a lake. It happens.

Let me know next time you guys are out and about. I want to follow you.
 
Whenever someone asks me what I think they should get for their first deer rifle, I recommend the Axis package in .308, knowing full-well if they like it then they'll end up buying more anyways. I've not had anyone complain about the out-of-box performance of their new guns, and after helping many with sight-in I have yet to see one shoot worse than 1.5" - great for a budget hunter. Tighten the bases and rings properly and then the fun begins.


I would nt hesitate to get the package gun in .223 for predators either.

They dont complain because they dont know any better.

I showed a fairly new licensed gun owner an Axis at Epps one day. He hated the feel of it. Said (rightly) that it felt cheap. He opted to scope his sporter LE 303 Brit instead of buying the Axis.
 
Here is a thought for a new shooter/hunter on a budget...

Get a $150 Mosin, reload with premium bullets, practice at the range to figure out what loading matches the original iron sights point of aim.

It will problebly keep your family's freezer full of every game animal you can legaly hunt for generations and continue to work in conditions that the majority of Canadian hunters would not be hunting in anyway. Sure it's not pretty but it's very practical and I'll be far tougher then a $5000 gun with $2000 in glassware on top.
 
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???

Just like anything else it can be lost...if its not in your hands ie direct control s**t happens out in the woods and it can be lost.

Give me a break. "Quite a few friends" lost their rifles as they dropped out of the back of a truck because it wasn't tied properly to the ATV? Talk about extreme irresponsibility. This year will be 27 years that I have been big game hunting. I have never even come close to "losing" my rifle, and niether have any of my friends.
 
I'm not going to buy the cheapest thing on the shelf, in case something happens to it. I'd rather spend more and have something reliable, solid, AND SHOOTS...;) Buy quality, buy once. Same reason I don't drive the cheapest, low end truck or car I can find either, just in case someone runs into me...

Savage should strive to make a better product, instead of trying to make the cheapest.

There is a reason that most companies do not make low end products, it drags the brand down, but when you are at the bottom I guess it doesn't matter...

Savage makes both less expensive rifles...and expensive ones. None are bad and they all shoot and work well. Not everyone can afford higher end or shoot often enough to justify heavy spending. Its nice they make products for all types of people.
 
Give me a break. "Quite a few friends" lost their rifles as they dropped out of the back of a truck because it wasn't tied properly to the ATV? Talk about extreme irresponsibility. This year will be 27 years that I have been big game hunting. I have never even come close to "losing" my rifle, and niether have any of my friends.

Are you wanting an apology for something I did not do or approve of...?

I know a few natives that shoot deer with spot lights and .22s...want an apology for that too as you probably haven't done that either in your "27 years"
 
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