Bad Canadian IPSC Press in Front Sight

[96Brigadier]

Seriously, this should not be an issue for Sean/IPSC Canada to be dealing with. The fact that the alleged incident involved a Canadian should be completely irrelevant.

I would agree except for the fact that Front Sight chose to print this letter. There are 20,000+ shooters who receive that magazine, it called out Canada so why not consider writing a response? As a USPSA member I could do the same on my own, I think it would carry a lot more weight if it came from someone a little more official and would also have a lot higher probability of being printed though.

 

[Quigley]

it was a sanctioned match.... Area 8 USPSA championship

Darryle was throwing out a "what if" it was safety related and came from one of our members. That didn't actually happen.

The alleged issue at area 8 was not safety related, and was ignored by the match officials...end of story.

 

[tgt40]

why not consider writing a response? As a USPSA member I could do the same on my own

I'm going to write. Clearly the issue is being made into a Canada vs. the United States one and I'm embarrassed to be associated with anyone who displays this kind of behaviour.

 

[PH Racing]

First the supposed behaviour is not acceptable. However, since neither the RO or the MD, who were both actually on the scene at the time, did not see enough cause to DQ or otherwise punish the individual involved, there would appear to be no reason to persue this further. Except perhaps to inquire as to why Front Sight saw the need to publish an inflammatory letter.

 

[black]

Darryle was throwing out a "what if" it was safety related and came from one of our members. That didn't actually happen.

The alleged issue at area 8 was not safety related, and was ignored by the match officials...end of story.

Well I was there the day this was supposed to have happen and I did not hear anything about it.

I know the Match director and a whole bunch of the staff and no one mentioned anything to me even in passing. (and we always chat a lot to catch up before during and after the stage all day long) I had diner with another match director (different match than Area 8) that evening and if anyone would have brought it up this guy would do it in a heartbeat.

I`m not saying is didn't`t happen but I`m wondering if there was a little embellishment done by the letter writer.

The one thing I've seen in USPSA is the match staff will give you a lot of leeway but if your abusive or offensive they will cut you off at the knee.

I was at the Nationals a few year back and there was a stage called the dark house the CRO warned us that any unsafe gun handling would result in them physically stomping on us.... there would be no verbal warning (if you saw the stage you would understand) and we all believed him (he was really BIG)

I wonder why are we even discussing it here and "demanding" IPSC Canada get involved. USPSA had the decision and they decided to not act, they were there, they saw or heard what was said /done.

This has to be the worst case of (many month later) Monday morning Quarterbacking ever.

 

[Corp. Punishment]

Well, its entirely possible that the behavior described in fact happened.

The list of attendees is here

I recognize at least 6 male canadian IPSC members on first glance...

 

[PeterPan]

First the supposed behaviour is not acceptable. However, since neither the RO or the MD, who were both actually on the scene at the time, did not see enough cause to DQ or otherwise punish the individual involved, there would appear to be no reason to persue this further. Except perhaps to inquire as to why Front Sight saw the need to publish an inflammatory letter.

I agree.
Before anyone writes to the magazine, they should know bit more about what happen on that day and not from the shooter but from officials.

 

[96Brigadier]

I agree.
Before anyone writes to the magazine, they should know bit more about what happen on that day and not from the shooter but from officials.

Why? A response need not make any mention of whether it happened or not, as far as I'm concerned it's pretty much irrelevant at this point anyways because just about everyone who reads that article is going to BELIEVE it happened whether it really did or not.

What remains is the fact that a letter was published that calls into question the behaviour of every shooter in Canada. The old adage "Perception is 9/10ths of the law" could never be truer. Personally I feel there should be a response (in a well written, professional manner) to state that behaviour as described in this issue of Front Sight magazine is not behaviour that is condoned in Canada, and in fact 99% of shooters in Canada are excellent people who are out to have a good time and would never dream of behaving in such a fashion.

 

[hungrybeagle]

Well, its entirely possible that the behavior described in fact happened.

The list of attendees is here

I recognize at least 6 male canadian IPSC members on first glance...

I get broken link, and there were far more than 6 Canadians there. The number is probably close to 20. Heck, 2 of us flew out from BC to reach that match.

 

[Slavex]

whew I was worried it was the article I was in that was the concern.
at most IPSC Canada should simply write a "we dont't condone" letter.

 

[TDC]

Here's how I see it.

The issue of safety is a non issue, if you can't pick up a firearm safely without a prop you simply suck and should find a new activity.

The third party a$$hat who believes that using profanity(although I could care less if every other word started with F) towards the RO and MD would somehow solve the issue needs to get slapped upside the head.

The bad PR for Canada is uncalled for and the editor should have caught that prior to going to press.

The author should grow a set and forward his complaints through the proper channels rather than play the gossip game.

The MD should have grown a set and sent the mouthpiece packing.

The concern about arguing when there are "loaded guns" around is straight up ignorant BS and paranoia!

TDC

 

[Freedom Ventures]

I have got to the bottom of this anyway.

This was not a sanctioned match. USPSA matches are not IPSC sanctioned.
USPSA frequently allows Canadians to shoot in thier matches and rarely checks to see if they are actually members of IPSC Canada.
When USPSA runs an IPSC match, it's obvious it's an IPSC match.

Unless something was done there, a DQ for unsportsmanlike conduct or something, there's no evidence anything other than one person was upset and there is no ability to act.

That was a poorly thought out start position for an open gun. It should have been protested. (although not as written in the letter) In the end, the protest rightly won.

I, too am disappointed that Front Sight would print such an inflamatory letter that has no evidence, only one side of the story, etc.

I have written USPSA to explain that we don't send reps of Canada to the US, that the match officials should and would have DQed the person IF they thought it was appropriate and Lou, the writer should have got off his butt and done something there and then rather than 4 months later. I also stated that this persons behaviour as described would not be tolerated in Canada.

After speaking with the person involved, I found out that the squad was full of Americans who also cuss and get excited at matches; one very close to the lady of which Lou is coming to the defense of. One of the Americans is a very popular pro and Lou wouldn't have dared write a letter against him. (instead he chose to pick on the Canadian)

The bottom line - Front Sight exercised poor judgement in printing that letter.

Feel free to write Front Sight, but think about it for a bit - I'm sure you'll come to the same conclusion as me.

I'm off to SHOT... I'll try to check in but if not - See you all Tuesday.

 

[relliott]

I would consider writing a letter like this to an international publication to be passive/aggressive behavior...at BEST. If you have a problem with a certain person's behavior at a match then you either grow a set of stones and deal with it up front or make a decision to let it ride. You DON'T go whining about it back-channel and stirring people up. It's unfair and dare I say...unsportsmanlike. For the editor to go ahead and publish it is just bad judgment. Now we have people who weren't there and have no first-hand knowledge of the situation calling for someone's head based entirely on this letter, and not at all on anything factual. I don't condone poor behavior, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to be prejudged and treated in this way even if I had screwed up and shot my mouth off. If I am out of line, fine. Deal with it at the time or don't. Simple.

USPSA and IPSC both have rules for unsportsmanlike conduct, and if it occurs it is up to them to enforce them. If they don't, too bad. Additionally, if a start position is enforced that contravenes the rule book, I would expect a certain amount of push-back to be leveled on this, and it doesn't matter what country you come from; the rules are the rules.

 

[4string]

I think all the comments I was going to make have been said except.

If he was such a man why wouldn't he have told this Canadian to watch his language around a lady. I know I have done this when ladies and children have been on the squad, or while I am out living my life.

My two cents.

 

[Slavex]

the Open gun in question was setup like a lot of Open guns, a slide racker that extends out the side. the RO was wrong to call it a prop and I guess that got sorted out.

 

[96Brigadier]

I, too am disappointed that Front Sight would print such an inflamatory letter that has no evidence, only one side of the story, etc.

I have written USPSA to explain that we don't send reps of Canada to the US, that the match officials should and would have DQed the person IF they thought it was appropriate and Lou, the writer should have got off his butt and done something there and then rather than 4 months later. I also stated that this persons behaviour as described would not be tolerated in Canada.

Awesome, thanks Sean, good response.

Feel free to write Front Sight, but think about it for a bit - I'm sure you'll come to the same conclusion as me.

As I said in a previous post in this thread, I thought a response as you wrote and coming from you would be a good thing. No need for anything further as far as I am concerned, so again, thank you.

 

[ElmerFudd]

Why? A response need not make any mention of whether it happened or not, as far as I'm concerned it's pretty much irrelevant at this point anyways because just about everyone who reads that article is going to BELIEVE it happened whether it really did or not.

What remains is the fact that a letter was published that calls into question the behaviour of every shooter in Canada. The old adage "Perception is 9/10ths of the law" could never be truer.

I agree. When something gets press time whether true or not it should be considered to be replied to. And a "letter to the editor" from IPSC Canada might be in order.

A letter doesn't have to state whether this event happened or not, just that IPSC Canada and Canadians in general don't condone it. Perhaps stating the above views that the RO or MD should/could have dealt with it at the time if they felt it was required.

If he was such a man why wouldn't he have told this Canadian to watch his language around a lady.

I don't think we always need more people getting involved especially if they are not match ROs or MDs. Perhaps he should have taken it up with the MD at the time.

And what IF it was a lady or younger or smaller person that wrote in to the magazine? Approaching and complaining to a bigger man can be intimidating at the time. Especially if they have just been yelling.

Fact is all the swearing that seems to happen at matches can't be the best for the sport and getting new shooters to join. I know a lot of people swear and argue just for the fun of it and it really doesn't bother me. But when it is seen by a shooting or non-shooting guest it doesn't exactly portray the best light on the sport.

Makes one wonder how they ever came up with "Irrational People Squabbling Constantly".


Fudd

 

[Jericho]

A call was made to the match director, who arrived promptly, only for himself to be attacked verbally by this arrogant individual continuing to show zero respect and creating an unnecessary scene. The match director corrected the official start position and very calmly but firmly "backed down" the over-angered individual causing the problem. And to boot, throughout the entire day this guy constantly used the "F" word very loudly around the only female shooter in our squad. I can only imagine how she felt hearing this all day.

The guy shoulda been booted as soon as it started.

Why would it matter if the shooter was female?

 

[rotncore]

As a relative outsider to the sport (BB and qualifier only so far), this whole thing doesn't make me want to get more involved.

The sport has enough of an "old boys/insiders only" feel to it as it is. I go to the range to have fun, and want matches to reflect that, but I have the impression that type A personalities and pissing matches are somewhat common. I suggest some of you who I assume are higher in the organization of IPSC consider how the sport looks to those considering becoming involved. You may be dooming it to a slow death if new shooters don't stick around.

 

[flinter]

As a relative outsider to the sport (BB and qualifier only so far), this whole thing doesn't make me want to get more involved.

The sport has enough of an "old boys/insiders only" feel to it as it is. I go to the range to have fun, and want matches to reflect that, but I have the impression that type A personalities and pissing matches are somewhat common. I suggest some of you who I assume are higher in the organization of IPSC consider how the sport looks to those considering becoming involved. You may be dooming it to a slow death if new shooters don't stick around.

I think if you read all the posts again(I assume you will)you will find most people don't condon this type of behaviour
However most ROs are reluctant to issue a Unsportsman like conduct penalty and usually try to calm people down and get the match back under way

At the match(until this letter was printed)almost 300 people didn't know there was a problem

I would urge you to go to matches and have fun
I've been to a lot of matches and this behavor is rare and frowned upon
Yes there are people who swear too much or too easily
They need to realise this is rude






Come to a match in Alberta