Bad Groups Clean Gun?? 223 Tikka

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stepnout kennels

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I had a friend out to the range 3 times in the last 2 weeks. He bought a new Tikka Varmint 223 x 8 twist. He shot it 5 rounds and cleaned between rounds but did not use a good quality copper cleaner. Then shot 3 sets of 5 rounds a cleaned between sets. We sited it in and kept getting 2-4 inch fliers. Checked the scope and realigned and tightened everything (Tikka Optilock mounts and Leupold 6.5-20 varminter scope). We tried 3 different types of ammo 2, 55 grain and one milsurp type 63 fmj. All types had 2-4 inch fliers Total shots30-40 rounds. We totally cleaned the gun with sweets.
Back to the range on day 3 we experienced the same 2-4 inch fliers and the best group at 100 yards was 2-3 inch at best.
NOW THE CRAZY PART. After the gun had at least 25-30 shells and was dirty it started to shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yards. I think it will do better but the wind was giving us trouble. We went the the 200 yard and with high wind we managed to shoot a 2.5 inch group. The bullets actually blue 1.5 inches from our hold point in the wind.
Can you please comment on what is happening?:sniper:
 
In general, there are micro dimples inside the barrel. Tooling marks. Every time you send a bullet down the pipe, some of the copper from the jacket is scraped off and left in there to fill up those tiny marks smoothing out the barrel. Sometimes it takes 10 to 15 shots to get the barrel properly fowled. Too much fowling......50-100 rounds depending on your barrel will eventually lead to poor groups. Immediatly after cleaning your barrel its always a good idea to send a few downrange to fowl it up. DONT clean it until you see the groups starting to open up again.
 
My target rifle, right from squeaky clean, takes a good 20-30 rounds down it to settle down. Once fouled though it will run 300-400 rounds before groups open up.
 
You are experiencing what most factory barrel owners don't understand - in general, these barrels shoot their best when dirty. Some so dirty that they go green from the copper fouling oxidizing.

Only clean a barrel when it looses accuracy or if rust is an issue.

My Stevens 223 saw over 300rds and still shot into 1/2 min. I only cleaned it because I was going to store it as a new Pac nor had arrived. I really don't know how many rds would have to be shot before accuracy drops off.

If you find that accuracy falls off after say 75 to 100rds, run a few DRY patches down the pipe. The first two will be quite black, then the third and possible forth will be grey. Stop and get back to shooting.

I bet accuracy is restored. You POI is right on the first or at worse, second shot. If the first shot is not dead on, clean LESS.

If the barrel gets to a point when dry patching doesn't help, then break out the bore solvents with copper remover/ammonia and clean till the patchs are grey. going to a snow white patch simply means you have ALOT of fouling shots to make before your barrels comes back.

Most barrels need a level of fouling to shoot their best. Overcleaning is the best way to ensure you get the least out of your barrel.

Jerry
 
Some rifles shoot better with a "dirty" bore................;)

With a new rifle you are also 'burnishing" the bore.There may be rough spots in the barrel from the factory..........these will smooth out with more rounds through it.

I always run a few of patches with JB Bore Compound on them when I get a new rifle/barrel to remove any tiny burrs/rough spots...............

As said, over cleaning a barrel is just as bad as not cleaning it at all, and can wear the barrel prematurely..........

SKBY.
 
Not everyone is capable of shooting a .1 MOA group, there is also a good possibility that simply becoming acquainted with the characteristics of the new rifle contributed to the better group size. Factory hoses are famous for shooting better dirty and I bet that a HUGE hunk of hunters never clean their rifles properly - ever.

Having said that, I clean only when groups size tells me it's time. I shot the final day of the Kamloops winter F-Class league today with a 6BR that hasn't been cleaned in 200 rounds and I shot better than the the season aggregate winner did (and CyaN1de) today:nest::stirthepot2:
 
+1 for all those who say that a dirty bore sometimes helps a rifle 'settle in'; a 'squeaky clean' gun's bore is anything but - it's just got a ton of oil and other nonsense inside it. Oil leads to unpredictability sometimes; hence why most hunters (myself included) will clean their rifle at the end of deer season, then fire 5-10 'fouling shots' before re-verifying my groups for the start of season.

BTW, my deer gun's a Tikka T3 Lite in .300 WSM (a lot of gun for deer, I know, but it's good for anything else I might take a poke at such as moose or bear in the hopefully near future) and it takes its time settling in after a really good scrub-down.

To give you an idea, the first 3-5 shots I don't usually even care about; just fire them into a safe backstop. The next 3-5 shots are usually 2-3 MOA. The next 3-5 are usually 1-2 MOA, and at the end of a box I can usually squeeze out a .75 MOA group with a lightly fouled bore.

Shooting with a "fresh" barrel is not as accurate as most people would think.

-M
 
If I have a barrel which won't shoot well clean, then I have a barrel which is no damn good! I expect the first shot from a clean dry barrel to hit group center. Plainly, I'm in the minority here! Regards, Bill.
 
Na Bill, mine shoot better clean, but I don't clean them unless they need it....

BTW, I met your dad the other day in Kamloops... very nice fellow!

Ian
 
Part of what's going on is that the barrel is breaking in. It is normal that groups get smaller for the first 100-200 rounds, although the difference is usually tenths of an inch, not inches.
 
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