Bad head space
- Thread starter got to go
- Start date
The No.4 rifle has 4 different bolt heads. They are numbered 0, 1, 2, and 3. 0 being the tightest and 3 being more loose. As Spectre said above, If you have one with bad head spacing just replace it with one to fix the issue. So if its too sloppy, up the number, too tight, reduce the number. A lot of bits and pieces rifles have head spacing issues due to people not knowing about the number sizes and throwing on the first bolt head they find.
As for the No.1 rifles, I am not sure. they are not numbered, I think they might be lettered, or they are just not marked for size.
As for the No.1 rifles, I am not sure. they are not numbered, I think they might be lettered, or they are just not marked for size.
Drew_CarreyAB
Member
- Location
- Central Alberta
Where would we find the extra bolt heads? I too have this problem on one of my #4Mk1's..I am/was almost going to bubba the action to tighten it up by welding on the back end where the bolt cams into place and then file it off smooth.....My brass is coming out of the chamber with the shoulder rounded off. I can push the bolt ahead around like 1/8"......
Your best bet is to post a want add on the EE. I know for a fact that some of the milsurp regulars have a few heads kicking around that they would be more then glad to sell to/give you. Vimmy Ridge comes to mind, Louthepou is another. From what I can tell, they both collect and restore Enfields and they both seem like really nice people.
(By the way, Vimmy and Lou, Hope you don't mind me steering him your ways)
A rounded shoulder has nothing to do with excess headspace.
Welding over the locking shoulders on the bolt could be a really bad idea.
No. 1 boltheads were adjusted for headspace at time of manufacture, they are not incrementally sized. Selective assembly is an option. No. 1 boltheads are not entirely interchangable. Thread timing is not uniform. The bolthead must bottom against the bolt body, not on its threads.
There have been experiments building up the face of the bolthead.
You cannot automatically assume that a higher numbered bolthead will cure excess headspace in a No. 4. It is necessary to use gauges to check.
Replacing the entire bolt assembly is another option, BUT this can be a problem if the rifle is matching numbers, collector grade. AND, if the bolt assembly is changed, make darn sure that the locking surfaces are bearing properly.
Another option, if a person is an experienced handloader, is to prepare cartridges that eliminate the excess headspace situation that exists with factory ammunition.
If the rifle is a sporter, the barrel can be set back one thread and the chamber recut. The absolute worst excess headspace I have ever seen on a Lee Enfield was on one of the nicer Parker Hale sporters which had been fitted with a brand new commercial barrel.
Welding over the locking shoulders on the bolt could be a really bad idea.
No. 1 boltheads were adjusted for headspace at time of manufacture, they are not incrementally sized. Selective assembly is an option. No. 1 boltheads are not entirely interchangable. Thread timing is not uniform. The bolthead must bottom against the bolt body, not on its threads.
There have been experiments building up the face of the bolthead.
You cannot automatically assume that a higher numbered bolthead will cure excess headspace in a No. 4. It is necessary to use gauges to check.
Replacing the entire bolt assembly is another option, BUT this can be a problem if the rifle is matching numbers, collector grade. AND, if the bolt assembly is changed, make darn sure that the locking surfaces are bearing properly.
Another option, if a person is an experienced handloader, is to prepare cartridges that eliminate the excess headspace situation that exists with factory ammunition.
If the rifle is a sporter, the barrel can be set back one thread and the chamber recut. The absolute worst excess headspace I have ever seen on a Lee Enfield was on one of the nicer Parker Hale sporters which had been fitted with a brand new commercial barrel.
- Location
- Pile of Bones, SK
No1 boltheads aren't marked with a size. Some are lettered yes, but it doesn't relate to sizing. To find out the size you'd have to measure with a micrometre, or just swap them out until one works with headspacing gauges.
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Bolt
A rounded shoulder has nothing to do with excess headspace.
Welding over the locking shoulders on the bolt could be a really bad idea.
That is ALWAYS a REALLY bad idea! In fact, it is bordering on insane.
"...with headspace gauges..." This being important with either model. Just going to one number up on a No. 4 does not guarantee the headspace will be fixed. Gives you a place to start though.
Headspace guages measure nothing. They only tell you if the headspace is within spec. Just like any other Go/No-Go guage.
No. 1 bolt heads do come is assorted lengths, but as mentioned they are not numbered. You need a handful to try with guages until you find one that works. That'd be not closing on a No-Go. Not closing on a Field will do though. Same guages for either model.
Marstar has bolt heads for both models. 0's, 1's and 2's, No. 4 bolt heads at $19 each. $22 each for No. 1 bolt heads.
Headspace guages measure nothing. They only tell you if the headspace is within spec. Just like any other Go/No-Go guage.
No. 1 bolt heads do come is assorted lengths, but as mentioned they are not numbered. You need a handful to try with guages until you find one that works. That'd be not closing on a No-Go. Not closing on a Field will do though. Same guages for either model.
Marstar has bolt heads for both models. 0's, 1's and 2's, No. 4 bolt heads at $19 each. $22 each for No. 1 bolt heads.
The No.1 or SMLE did have specially marked bolt heads they were marked with the letter “S” for spare, these bolt heads were longer and were meant to be lapped to the correct length/headspace. (New “S” marked bolt heads are the longest you will find)
On the Enfield action with a empty unfired new case in the chamber and using feeler gauges placed between the right locking log and the receiver you can get “head gap clearance” or the “air gap” between the rear of the case and the bolt face, if you add you rim thickness you will have your actual headspace measurement.
NOTE: The “head gap clearance” or the “air gap” is what causes your headspace and case problems.
On the Enfield action with a empty unfired new case in the chamber and using feeler gauges placed between the right locking log and the receiver you can get “head gap clearance” or the “air gap” between the rear of the case and the bolt face, if you add you rim thickness you will have your actual headspace measurement.
NOTE: The “head gap clearance” or the “air gap” is what causes your headspace and case problems.
Some bad advice here guys.
The No 4 has two rear locking lugs. It is most important that the innner lug, safety side make full contact with the pocket in the receiver. Paint it with "DyeChem" or "Magicmarker" and cycle to see if enguages. The opposite side should lock up however does not always. Some target shooters believe that contact is not necessary. It's a safety feature.
Headspace is checked with a set of guages at the bolt face only. Miltary .064" Commerical .060" on the Go and .074" on the field guage. Rotation and thread enguagement do have limits however are not critical.
I know there's lots of articles out there, however headspace is much misunderstood....it's to give brass life for reloading. Excessive...greater than .074" will result in case failure and must be corrected.
The No 4 has two rear locking lugs. It is most important that the innner lug, safety side make full contact with the pocket in the receiver. Paint it with "DyeChem" or "Magicmarker" and cycle to see if enguages. The opposite side should lock up however does not always. Some target shooters believe that contact is not necessary. It's a safety feature.
Headspace is checked with a set of guages at the bolt face only. Miltary .064" Commerical .060" on the Go and .074" on the field guage. Rotation and thread enguagement do have limits however are not critical.
I know there's lots of articles out there, however headspace is much misunderstood....it's to give brass life for reloading. Excessive...greater than .074" will result in case failure and must be corrected.
rgg 7
You are giving out some very bad information and NONE of it comes from any manual, if you are going to try and help people in forums then get your facts straight.
On both the No.1 and No.4 Enfield BOTH locking lugs should be making equal contact and this is from the manuals, the manual gives no percentile figure for contact percentage on the locking lugs BUT both are to be equal.
Minimum headspace is the same for military and commercial headspace and BOTH are .064, the 2002 Canadian headspace requirements are below and are NOT the same as British requirements.
I read this to mean:
.064 minimum
.070 maximum
.074 field
Commercial SAAMI standards.
Just one of many manuals on the Enfield rifle I have.
You are giving out some very bad information and NONE of it comes from any manual, if you are going to try and help people in forums then get your facts straight.
On both the No.1 and No.4 Enfield BOTH locking lugs should be making equal contact and this is from the manuals, the manual gives no percentile figure for contact percentage on the locking lugs BUT both are to be equal.
Minimum headspace is the same for military and commercial headspace and BOTH are .064, the 2002 Canadian headspace requirements are below and are NOT the same as British requirements.
I read this to mean:
.064 minimum
.070 maximum
.074 field
Commercial SAAMI standards.
Just one of many manuals on the Enfield rifle I have.
Military rifles have larger diameter chambers and longer headspace settings than commercial rifles, Military ammunition is thicker in the web area than commercial ammunition.
If you want to reload commercial ammunition for the Enfield rifle then headspace has everything to do with reloading.
The commercial Winchester ammunition below was fired in a 1943 Maltby No.4 Enfield with the headspace set at .067, the case stretched and thinned over .009 (nine thousandths) in the web area on the first firing.
HEAD SPACE HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH RELOADING, the Enfield rifle was not designed to shoot commercial SAAMI ammunition.
I have the gauges to measure how much the case stretches and thins after each firing.
If you want to reload commercial ammunition for the Enfield rifle then headspace has everything to do with reloading.
The commercial Winchester ammunition below was fired in a 1943 Maltby No.4 Enfield with the headspace set at .067, the case stretched and thinned over .009 (nine thousandths) in the web area on the first firing.
HEAD SPACE HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH RELOADING, the Enfield rifle was not designed to shoot commercial SAAMI ammunition.
I have the gauges to measure how much the case stretches and thins after each firing.
Very good info and opinions on headspace.
Bottom line...guns got to be build right and to a tolerance or it's not going to perform worth a dam! Stack up tolerance on bolt bodies, heads, breeches and barrel all come into play. Once gun is built the Armourers option was to correct headspace through a bolt head change. If the correct size was not a Quartermaster item the rifle was either rebarrelled or DP'd.
There's been a lot written about headspace. A couple good reference:
" under FAQ's http://www.fulton-armory.com/headspace/html" Great article by
Bill Kuleck."
You can Google "303 Headspace" and a few more are available. Look at the rimmed cartridges as they're headspaced differently than rimless.
The other important information is the headspace specifications...Military, SAAMI and Austrialan ...Steve Redgwell on www.303british.com has some excellent explainations and literature for sale on the 303.
There's also an article on "http://parallaxscurioandrelicforms.yuku.cam" that anwers the use of feeler guages behind the rear lug....this is a nono for headspace.
In conclusion....headspace is measured off the boltface.....ensure the the headspace is within specifications for your safety and brass life if you reload.
Bottom line...guns got to be build right and to a tolerance or it's not going to perform worth a dam! Stack up tolerance on bolt bodies, heads, breeches and barrel all come into play. Once gun is built the Armourers option was to correct headspace through a bolt head change. If the correct size was not a Quartermaster item the rifle was either rebarrelled or DP'd.
There's been a lot written about headspace. A couple good reference:
" under FAQ's http://www.fulton-armory.com/headspace/html" Great article by
Bill Kuleck."
You can Google "303 Headspace" and a few more are available. Look at the rimmed cartridges as they're headspaced differently than rimless.
The other important information is the headspace specifications...Military, SAAMI and Austrialan ...Steve Redgwell on www.303british.com has some excellent explainations and literature for sale on the 303.
There's also an article on "http://parallaxscurioandrelicforms.yuku.cam" that anwers the use of feeler guages behind the rear lug....this is a nono for headspace.
In conclusion....headspace is measured off the boltface.....ensure the the headspace is within specifications for your safety and brass life if you reload.
