badger M2013 actions

[J996]

My draw to the action is the ability to get different calibers.

AI standard SA calibers:

.243, .308, .260, 6.5X47 The section with barrels is not up on their new website yet but it will be. Countries like France are not allowed military calibers like 7.62x51 so they do offer others. 6.5 Creed is offered by AINA but I don't think its a caliber available from AI UK. Bartlein or GAP can spin up any SA caliber the customer wants (6mm ect).

AI standard LA calibers:

.300 win mag, .338 lap mag. In the US GAP can and has done 7mm Rem mag barrels.

Buy barrel and install yourself torque to 100 ft pounds on AW/AX. The new quick change rifles just hand tighten then torque the set screw.

 

[BadAsMo]

There's another side to that coin.
If they don't bring any in, they will never sell one.

There's also creative ways for dealers to mitigate risk. We've all seen dealers take a small deposit for a pre-order. Once they get 5 pre-orders, they can place the order with Badger. If they don't get 5 pre-orders within ### days, then they can give back the deposit.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

Seriously ??

If " our so-called "distributors" here in Canada " tried to accommodate what you are describing and have every possible product out there with minimum orders it would be into the millions of dollars and some of it would never sell.
Most gun stuff isn't cheap, look at 5 of these actions - minimum order would be over $5000 and that's only one product.
How can you realistically expect retailers spend those kind of dollars in the hopes it might sell??

JJ

 

[jimmyjazz]

There's another side to that coin.
If they don't bring any in, they will never sell one.

There's also creative ways for dealers to mitigate risk. We've all seen dealers take a small deposit for a pre-order. Once they get 5 pre-orders, they can place the order with Badger. If they don't get 5 pre-orders within ### days, then they can give back the deposit.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

I agree with your creative solution, take a deposit and after so many deposits or days you order or refund, I have used this method many times.

But he was suggesting Canadian Distributors just have it all in hand hoping that someone will come in and purchase, which just isn't financially possible or responsible.

JJ

 

[arcticcathonda]

I agree with your creative solution, take a deposit and after so many deposits or days you order or refund, I have used this method many times.

But he was suggesting Canadian Distributors just have it all in hand hoping that someone will come in and purchase, which just isn't financially possible or responsible.

JJ

That's fine, good luck finding 5 buyers within a 6 month or so time frame. Any longer than that and guys will just buy from shops in the USA who do the financially impossible and irresponsible thing and have them in stock. Import them and they are off to the races. Maybe I am a little odd, but unless the item is so specialized that it is sourced from one manufacturer, I am not going to sit on a wait list out of pocket for the deposit. As a merchant, you either want the sale or you don't. Show me the incentive for buying from you rather than company X.

Sorry, a bit off topic.

 

[Shabazz]

$3600 for a 22lr that's crazy

STOP IT BOTH OF YOU! The logical part of me (what's left of it) is starting to ask questions that I'm not prepared to answer. Give me a break here.

 

[marcoman]

Seriously ??

If " our so-called "distributors" here in Canada " tried to accommodate what you are describing and have every possible product out there with minimum orders it would be into the millions of dollars and some of it would never sell.
Most gun stuff isn't cheap, look at 5 of these actions - minimum order would be over $5000 and that's only one product.
How can you realistically expect retailers spend those kind of dollars in the hopes it might sell??

JJ

Problem is that certain dealers or distributors (Wolverine is a good example) gain exclusive distribution rights to brands and products for the Canadian market leaving you no alternative to legitimately source it from a competitor if they don't have an item in stock or in this case are un-willing to bring it in.
I could name a dozen examples of products or brands that have only 1 source by which they can be obtained here and the dealer has little to no stock of said product (at all times btw). If you want to be greedy and monopolize the Canadian market at least be able to put some product on your shelves. If not, open it to other dealers who are willing to do so.

 

[PitBull1973]

Is not easier to just order a Deviant action and have it brought in . Maybe a few hundred bucks more but better quality?

 

[arcticcathonda]

Is not easier to just order a Deviant action and have it brought in . Maybe a few hundred bucks more but better quality?

But some guys want a Badger action end of story.

Some may ask why bring in a deviant action if you can get a Stiller from a CDN dealer for cheaper? Answer is: that's not what you wanted, you wanted a Deviant.

 

[ivo]

Seriously ??

If " our so-called "distributors" here in Canada " tried to accommodate what you are describing and have every possible product out there with minimum orders it would be into the millions of dollars and some of it would never sell.
Most gun stuff isn't cheap, look at 5 of these actions - minimum order would be over $5000 and that's only one product.
How can you realistically expect retailers spend those kind of dollars in the hopes it might sell??

JJ

If you have an interested(committed) party for one of these actions, that means you only have 4 "sitting on the shelf". You let people know on your website that you have actions inbound and maybe you have only 3 "sitting on the shelf" by the time the delivery arrives. You then post on Gunnutz and the other forums here in Canada that actions are en route and maybe you only have 2 "sitting on the shelf". You put one in your display case in the store and then maybe you only have 1 "sitting on the shelf". And then a friend tells a friend who...

A long winded but simple answer to your dilemma. It's only sales and a bit of marketing.
There is a so called distributor here in Calgary that apparently sells March scopes. They don't answer their phones, return emails, don't have stock or even have a storefront, I don't imagine they sell many scopes.

To the OP, Badger actions have a pretty good following south of the border so if you are interested in one, go for it, you won't be disappointed. I also like the design of the action and would have considered one for my .260 AI build but ended up finding a Surgeon. Good luck and post pick of the build once it's complete.

 

[OldSavage]

I would have to import from the states. Wolverine only sells 308, 338, and 50 BMG based on an email I received last week

AI standard SA calibers:

.243, .308, .260, 6.5X47 The section with barrels is not up on their new website yet but it will be. Countries like France are not allowed military calibers like 7.62x51 so they do offer others. 6.5 Creed is offered by AINA but I don't think its a caliber available from AI UK. Bartlein or GAP can spin up any SA caliber the customer wants (6mm ect).

AI standard LA calibers:

.300 win mag, .338 lap mag. In the US GAP can and has done 7mm Rem mag barrels.

Buy barrel and install yourself torque to 100 ft pounds on AW/AX. The new quick change rifles just hand tighten then torque the set screw.

 

[scott_r]

Problem is that certain dealers or distributors (Wolverine is a good example) gain exclusive distribution rights to brands and products for the Canadian market leaving you no alternative to legitimately source it from a competitor if they don't have an item in stock or in this case are un-willing to bring it in.
I could name a dozen examples of products or brands that have only 1 source by which they can be obtained here and the dealer has little to no stock of said product (at all times btw). If you want to be greedy and monopolize the Canadian market at least be able to put some product on your shelves. If not, open it to other dealers who are willing to do so.

I agree 100%

 

[J996]

I would have to import from the states. Wolverine only sells 308, 338, and 50 BMG based on an email I received last week

See that's the odd thing with those guys, they are the exclusive distributor for AI in Canada. AI offers all these other calibers so what is the deal here? We should be able to order any damned part or accessory AI makes from our distributor.

I am saving up for a 6.5 barrel (just did a house Reno) and when I'm ready I will call sporting services in the UK, they have the barrels on their site. The states is a pain because AINA gets pissy with US vendors when they export out of the states so they don't like to do it. This whole barrel situation is quite bizarre.

The company makes it, Americans can get it, the English can get it, Canucks can't get it. Fail.

 

[Wolverine Guy]

Hi folks,
I thought we better sort this one out. I asked for input from Mr Wolverine and this is what we came up with.




We feel some of the criticisms are very unfair. Firstly if you have a criticism e-mail or call us, so we can respond, we do not monitor all the forums because there is just not enough time in the day.
Secondly, as some of the more astute posters will understand, we cannot stock all items all of the time. That is a quick way to go out of business.
Myself, as sales manager, Vicki and Gail our purchasers as well as Pat and John spend a good deal of our time making decisions on what product to bring in and in what volumes. This is a "no win" position as we always have too much or not enough of a given product



Where we have an exclusive line we take the stocking and support of these products very seriously. It is tough juggling cash flow with not only inventory but stocking the correct inventory. Sometimes we can’t win for trying, for example: We carry a large inventory of Barrett Firearms yet we have grey Imports coming into Canada with no warranty from the importer, some sold for $200 more that our in stock rifles, and now we hear of them selling at our cost, and we are expected to supply warranty!! makes me wonder why bother to continue. Are we doing something wrong?



We have no problem in stocking Badger actions if the demand justifies it. It is hard to justify ordering in these actions when you get 1 or 2 enquiries per year. We don’t like taking deposits as a rule, not for a line that we stock but sometimes it is a smart business decision. These are pricy, we only get a small discount as a distributor on these, so when we have priced them out no one was prepared to commit to placing an order.
We have priced them out over the last couple of days and come up with the following prices based on ordering 5 actions.
STD short action $1825.00
Magnum SA $1929.00
Magnum LA $2015.00
Magnum LM $2015.00
Now if we get 3-5 orders based on this pricing in a short time (I am thinking 1 month) we will place the order. 20% deposit required to be sure you are serious and deposits will be refunded in full if these base numbers are not met.



Recently we sold a huge quantity of old stock Accuracy International products at 50% loss as we had misjudged the market, so please do not accuse us of not stocking our exclusive lines.



AINA barrels, this is a sore point with us as to date they have not been available to us, we will take a new look. AINA is Accuracy International North America and we deal direct with Accuracy International in the UK. We have pursued this matter many times with AI and come up blank every time so far.
If you would all like to e-mail AI UK and express your interest in these it cannot do any harm and may strengthen our case to get them into Canada.

Finally, I would like to wish you all a good long weekend and hope you understand if I have better things to do than monitor this forum on my long weekend.
Best regards
Guy

 

[wheels]

shoot, I guess I missed your sale on the accuracy international stocks.. had my eye on a certain left-handed model for awhile.

 

[kevin9934]

But some guys want a Badger action end of story.

Some may ask why bring in a deviant action if you can get a Stiller from a CDN dealer for cheaper? Answer is: that's not what you wanted, you wanted a Deviant.

Then import it that it end of the story. Really it is much more easy

 

[TFunfer]

Thanks for the response Guy. Are you not able to bring in a single action if somebody puts down a deposit? Say with a regular order of Badger accessories?

And how did I ever miss your sale of AI products?!! If you happen to find an AICS 2.0 short action chassis with the old style (classic) stock sides hiding in the back, please let me know.

 

[Bile]

Hi folks,
I thought we better sort this one out. I asked for input from Mr Wolverine and this is what we came up with.




We feel some of the criticisms are very unfair. Firstly if you have a criticism e-mail or call us, so we can respond, we do not monitor all the forums because there is just not enough time in the day.
Secondly, as some of the more astute posters will understand, we cannot stock all items all of the time. That is a quick way to go out of business.
Myself, as sales manager, Vicki and Gail our purchasers as well as Pat and John spend a good deal of our time making decisions on what product to bring in and in what volumes. This is a "no win" position as we always have too much or not enough of a given product



Where we have an exclusive line we take the stocking and support of these products very seriously. It is tough juggling cash flow with not only inventory but stocking the correct inventory. Sometimes we can’t win for trying, for example: We carry a large inventory of Barrett Firearms yet we have grey Imports coming into Canada with no warranty from the importer, some sold for $200 more that our in stock rifles, and now we hear of them selling at our cost, and we are expected to supply warranty!! makes me wonder why bother to continue. Are we doing something wrong?



We have no problem in stocking Badger actions if the demand justifies it. It is hard to justify ordering in these actions when you get 1 or 2 enquiries per year. We don’t like taking deposits as a rule, not for a line that we stock but sometimes it is a smart business decision. These are pricy, we only get a small discount as a distributor on these, so when we have priced them out no one was prepared to commit to placing an order.
We have priced them out over the last couple of days and come up with the following prices based on ordering 5 actions.
STD short action $1825.00
Magnum SA $1929.00
Magnum LA $2015.00
Magnum LM $2015.00
Now if we get 3-5 orders based on this pricing in a short time (I am thinking 1 month) we will place the order. 20% deposit required to be sure you are serious and deposits will be refunded in full if these base numbers are not met.



Recently we sold a huge quantity of old stock Accuracy International products at 50% loss as we had misjudged the market, so please do not accuse us of not stocking our exclusive lines.



AINA barrels, this is a sore point with us as to date they have not been available to us, we will take a new look. AINA is Accuracy International North America and we deal direct with Accuracy International in the UK. We have pursued this matter many times with AI and come up blank every time so far.
If you would all like to e-mail AI UK and express your interest in these it cannot do any harm and may strengthen our case to get them into Canada.

Finally, I would like to wish you all a good long weekend and hope you understand if I have better things to do than monitor this forum on my long weekend.
Best regards
Guy

Good info. Thank you, Guy.

Do the actions come complete with a 20moa rail only? I assume no trigger or dbm are included. If we specified a 30 MOA rail instead of a 20 moa rail is that extra? I'm only interested in the 338 LM version. Non-goofy.

I'd rather jump on a badger action then try to get some other action which I won't be happy with. I agree with you about your business model. I don't envy your position to have to deal with the politics of it. I'm trying to build a gun I can get good with so, I don't really care about the politics. I'm pretty set on this action. That being said I have no problem with a $20 deposit.

Thanks again for the response, Guy.

 

[EC]

See that's the odd thing with those guys, they are the exclusive distributor for AI in Canada. AI offers all these other calibers so what is the deal here? We should be able to order any damned part or accessory AI makes from our distributor.

I am saving up for a 6.5 barrel (just did a house Reno) and when I'm ready I will call sporting services in the UK, they have the barrels on their site. The states is a pain because AINA gets pissy with US vendors when they export out of the states so they don't like to do it. This whole barrel situation is quite bizarre.

The company makes it, Americans can get it, the English can get it, Canucks can't get it. Fail.

J996,
I looked into this several times as well. I think Wolverine is in between a rock and a hard place and its AINA not wanting to ship out of the US. AINA I am sure are making lots of money in the US as there is a big market there, that's why they exist. Maybe they should just call it AIUS vs NA as the last time I heard Canada was in North America. The only thing I don't understand whether in the UK or US, AI is still run by Tom Irwin and an AI is an AI. Tom Irwin and Scott Siegmund who is the VP of AINA post on Snipershide on a regular basis and an email to them expressing that there are actually Canadians who have AI Rifles and would be interested in the barrels offered by AINA couldn't hurt. If not, maybe one of these two gentlemen would provide a reason why this is not possible.

 

[JayCarver]

^ +1

For everyone that would really like to be able to just order barrels (260,6.5CM, 243, 6CM, etc) from Wolverine send AI a email, it can't hurt. I've been vocal with AI a couple times about this (and once about AICS for T3's). If we don't tell them what we want they won't know.

Here's the email address ai@accuracyinternational.org

Even if they didn't stock them I would be fine with that it would just be nice to be able to order them rather than trying to deal with a US company that doesn't really want to deal with us because for some reason AINA doesn't want there barrels ending up north of the boarder. Like EC said, they should call themselves AIUS.

 

[J996]

J996,
I looked into this several times as well. I think Wolverine is in between a rock and a hard place and its AINA not wanting to ship out of the US. AINA I am sure are making lots of money in the US as there is a big market there, that's why they exist. Maybe they should just call it AIUS vs NA as the last time I heard Canada was in North America. The only thing I don't understand whether in the UK or US, AI is still run by Tom Irwin and an AI is an AI. Tom Irwin and Scott Siegmund who is the VP of AINA post on Snipershide on a regular basis and an email to them expressing that there are actually Canadians who have AI Rifles and would be interested in the barrels offered by AINA couldn't hurt. If not, maybe one of these two gentlemen would provide a reason why this is not possible.

Yes AINA (USA) is not giving us barrels, but AI UK makes or has barrels made for them in all sorts of calibers including .260

I have started a thread on this in the Wolverine section. Guy has responded and is looking into it. He will get back to us with an answer.

Thread here:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1220303-AI-UK-barrels-lets-talk-about-it

The Brits have these barrels, there is no reason we can't have them also since Wolverine deals directly with England. The one thing they don't appear to have is 6.5 creed since it is fairly new but I will happily take a .260 rem.

FYI all short action AI's including the new AT and AX use an AW profile barrel. AW,AE,AX,AT can take the same barrel. The new long action AXMC does not, it uses its own profile wich has a larger diameter tenon. You can't put an AE barrel on the AW,AX,AT, but you can put an AW barrel on the AE. The AE barrel has a smooth section that will not thread into the other rifles.