Badger Ordnance Dead Level

ivo said:
What do you use in the field or at the range as a reference to "level" your gun/scope/crosshairs before taking a shot?

The whole point of properly leveling your scope/rifle is for a reference point. If you have a rail mounted level, your scope needs to be level to the rail mounted level. If you have a scope mounted level, then the scope needs to be level to it. If you are not using a weapon mounted level(be it rail, scope or other) for reference then your just P!$$!NG in the wind.
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I use a scope level in the field.

You can use a tall target test to insure that the scope level the level with the scopes tracking. You can do this by snapping a chalk line on a 8' 2x4 and standing it with the line plumb at 100 yards. Draw a target closer to the bottom of the board. Shoot a group with your scope zeroed at 100 yards on the bottom target. Now dial up until you top out your scope (or a reasonable amount like 50 MOA or something) and shoot another group. You should be right on the plumb line. If not your level is off.

I built a scope tracking test rig so I adjust the level with the scope mounted to it. I have the same target with a 96" plumb line on it and I line the cross hair up with the line and run the scope through the elevation travel. If I dial up 70 minutes and the point of aim has moved off the plumb line then I make an adjustment. The scope level is level with the scope when I can dial up through the range of the elevation that I have available to me and it stays on the plumb line. (This is one reason I really like Flatline Ops levels. They have set screws that are used to finely adjust the level.)

Using cards under the scope to level the scope to the rail is pissing in the wind. :)
 
Shooter ----/ said:
Can you tell me how you calculate your degrees of cant and how you compensate in your ballistic app?
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Any good ballistic calc will have scope height and scope offset. Applied Ballistics does.

If you really want an accurate way to know your exact offset you would need to know your exact sight height and the angle that you are canting your gun. Then with some trig you can figure out your offset.

I suck a trig but there is an app for that.

If your scope height is 2" and you cant 4 degrees then your offset would be 0.1395" and your new sight height would be 1.9951". Hopefully someone can double check those numbers.

So if you don't compensate then you will be on at 100 yards and off 0.1395" at 200 yards and 1.2555" at 1000 yards. You will have to decide if you want to worry about that.
 
K0na_stinky said:
Also by the looks of the posts in the thread is seems that most shooters are still under the impression that your scope needs to be level to your gun. It most definitely does not.


When I am mounting a scope I will put a bi-pod on the gun and with a rear bag I lay down on the back deck. With out a scope I hold the gun how it feels comfortable. When its comfortable I attach a Wheeler clamp on level to the barrel. At that point my gun is level"


The bottom line is a few degrees of cant will not hurt you. If you want to have 45 degrees of cant then just compensate in your ballistic calc.
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I get what you're saying here but then that rifle is only optimized for you. I like full target adjustable butt stocks, that way you can adjust the stock to fit the shooters shoulder pocket and quickly adjust the lop and cheek rest for them. My wife as well as my friends often shoot my rifles, having the scope level to the rifle and just adjusting the stock ergos between different shooters is a nice feature.
 
J996 said:
I get what you're saying here but then that rifle is only optimized for you. I like full target adjustable butt stocks, that way you can adjust the stock to fit the shooters shoulder pocket and quickly adjust the lop and cheek rest for them. My wife as well as my friends often shoot my rifles, having the scope level to the rifle and just adjusting the stock ergos between different shooters is a nice feature.
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Buy your wife a rifle!!!! :)
 
K0na_stinky said:
Buy your wife a rifle!!!! :)
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Haha! I would but she wants my AIAW, I can't afford to buy his and hers AI's so we will have to share. I am very glad I bought one that has the quick adjust target butt, it only takes seconds to adjust the stock for a new shooter.

So I just watched that video, I don't think he used it properly. To level his scope with the cards, he could have done that on the bloody rifle itself!
What he should have done is torque the bottom half or the rings on, set the thing on a solid surface, level the darn built in level dead centre, orientate the scope reticle with a plumb bob, put the ring caps on, torque them, do a final check on the plumb bob, take it off, install on rifle, go to range to confirm.
 
A Starrett 199Z would be acceptable :)

For carpenter levels I like Stabila.

All this thread is missing now is lasers, we need more lasers!!!
 
Shooter ----/ said:
I would double check those levels against a high quality carpenters level. Mine were off. Also, as has been stated earlier, manufacturers don't recommend using the top of the elevation turret.
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made me wonder, mine are fine. Never thought to check it against other levels.

I found the elevation turret was off before tightening down thankfully. Just from using multiple points
 
The most important thing I can advise about leveling reticles is that not all reticles are mounted absolutely square in the scope body. Most companies do a pretty good job of getting their reticle relatively square but from time to time (even in high end optics) the reticles are off slightly but enough to make using any part of the scope body (including caps) to place a leveling device on, somewhat inaccurate as the scope body will end up being level but not the reticle. This can be very frustrating if this is not known and taken into consideration. We mount several hundred scopes a year and by far the best and fastest way for us is the experience of the technician and a little device called the Segway Reticle Leveler ($30). This device is a two piece white plastic plate with black horizontal lines that align with the reticle. There is a bubble level on the device that is attached under the scope and on the rail mount or other flat surface on the receiver (held on with elastic under the rifle). We then use an expanding arbour boresighter and together with the Segway make most of our mounting straight forward and relatively fast. Phil.
 
P of PDent said:
The most important thing I can advise about leveling reticles is that not all reticles are mounted absolutely square in the scope body. Most companies do a pretty good job of getting their reticle relatively square but from time to time (even in high end optics) the reticles are off slightly but enough to make using any part of the scope body (including caps) to place a leveling device on, somewhat inaccurate as the scope body will end up being level but not the reticle. This can be very frustrating if this is not known and taken into consideration. We mount several hundred scopes a year and by far the best and fastest way for us is the experience of the technician and a little device called the Segway Reticle Leveler ($30). This device is a two piece white plastic plate with black horizontal lines that align with the reticle. There is a bubble level on the device that is attached under the scope and on the rail mount or other flat surface on the receiver (held on with elastic under the rifle). We then use an expanding arbour boresighter and together with the Segway make most of our mounting straight forward and relatively fast. Phil.
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What if the reticle isn't square to the scopes tracking?
 
P of PDent said:
The most important thing I can advise about leveling reticles is that not all reticles are mounted absolutely square in the scope body. Most companies do a pretty good job of getting their reticle relatively square but from time to time (even in high end optics) the reticles are off slightly but enough to make using any part of the scope body (including caps) to place a leveling device on, somewhat inaccurate as the scope body will end up being level but not the reticle. This can be very frustrating if this is not known and taken into consideration. We mount several hundred scopes a year and by far the best and fastest way for us is the experience of the technician and a little device called the Segway Reticle Leveler ($30). This device is a two piece white plastic plate with black horizontal lines that align with the reticle. There is a bubble level on the device that is attached under the scope and on the rail mount or other flat surface on the receiver (held on with elastic under the rifle). We then use an expanding arbour boresighter and together with the Segway make most of our mounting straight forward and relatively fast. Phil.
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Do you sell such items online? Link ?
 
P of PDent said:
The most important thing I can advise about leveling reticles is that not all reticles are mounted absolutely square in the scope body. Most companies do a pretty good job of getting their reticle relatively square but from time to time (even in high end optics) the reticles are off slightly but enough to make using any part of the scope body (including caps) to place a leveling device on, somewhat inaccurate as the scope body will end up being level but not the reticle. This can be very frustrating if this is not known and taken into consideration. We mount several hundred scopes a year and by far the best and fastest way for us is the experience of the technician and a little device called the Segway Reticle Leveler ($30). This device is a two piece white plastic plate with black horizontal lines that align with the reticle. There is a bubble level on the device that is attached under the scope and on the rail mount or other flat surface on the receiver (held on with elastic under the rifle). We then use an expanding arbour boresighter and together with the Segway make most of our mounting straight forward and relatively fast. Phil.
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Even if your reticle was assembled forming an X, your reticle still tracks in the direction the turrets are dialed. If you were using the reticle for holdover, then this would be a great way to set up the scope.
 
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