Baffled: Pistol Accuracy for beginner - HELP!
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For some reason(my stupidity), I thought pistols were to be shot with the body at 45 degrees to the target. A few years ago, an "expert" showed me in Vegas that I should be hunched over, 45 degrees, leaned into the gun, and peering up with my hunched stance. He said it was a 'tactical' stance. Must've looked like a quasimodo for the past few months...
All the advice I'm getting from CGN, the videos I've been watching(thanks to everyone's suggestions), and the literature tells me that I should be square to the target, both arms about the same length, without the elbow dropping, and trigger finger movement not allowed to move the gun. Oh yeah, front sight in focus, everything else out of focus. Same breathing thing as the rifle target shooting(let out, hold, shoot, exhale) and relax. Did I miss something?
Someone(not an expert, but a gun shop clerk) also suggested that I use a "laser bore sighter" to look for movement when I pull a trigger. Agree? Or is this more fallacy?
Just do lots of dry firing, at first you will be shocked at how bad you move around as the trigger breaks. The source of your low and left hits will become apparent immediately, too. It gets better with some practice and makes a big difference at the range. I found improvements even just shooting 15-20 times every night before bed, more practice will show more improvements.
I have seen a guideline that said you should dry fire 10 times for every live round you shoot. Do that and you will see big improvements in short time.
Mark
Another newbie here and I've been doing the same thing going to the range and trying all their 9mm, keeping the tagets and trying to figure what best suits me. The problem is after firing so many rounds and looking back over the targets are the guns shooting better for me or am I just getting better. Oh well I guess I will just have to start over lol
READ THE BOOK
http://www.saveourguns.com/Ar_Marks_Un_Pistol_Train_Guide.pdf
This book has the fundamentals of ALL coaching right up to Olympic level competition. A few hours of reading will save you thousands in ammo costs.
http://www.saveourguns.com/Ar_Marks_Un_Pistol_Train_Guide.pdf
This book has the fundamentals of ALL coaching right up to Olympic level competition. A few hours of reading will save you thousands in ammo costs.
- Location
- Prince George B.C.
Buy a .22 !
I don't get this trend to buy a 9, 40, or whatever as a first pistol.
As a wise man once said...shooting a pistol is like playing a piano - practice, practice, practice.
There are many aspects to marksmanship - stance, grip, vision, breath control, timing, trigger control, follow through.....
Whether you are shooting a pistol or a rifle the single best item you can buy is a .22.
The cost of .22 ammo is a fraction of the cost of centerfire ammo. If you are serious about learning to shoot well it is all about practice. Buy a gun you can afford to shoot!
This thread, and many other threads like it
, contain all kinds of good advice but nothing beats range time.....practice... practice.... practice...
John
I don't get this trend to buy a 9, 40, or whatever as a first pistol.
As a wise man once said...shooting a pistol is like playing a piano - practice, practice, practice.
There are many aspects to marksmanship - stance, grip, vision, breath control, timing, trigger control, follow through.....
Whether you are shooting a pistol or a rifle the single best item you can buy is a .22.
The cost of .22 ammo is a fraction of the cost of centerfire ammo. If you are serious about learning to shoot well it is all about practice. Buy a gun you can afford to shoot!
This thread, and many other threads like it
, contain all kinds of good advice but nothing beats range time.....practice... practice.... practice...John
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bruce william
Regular
- Location
- Vancouver Island.
lower left
About a month ago somrone posted a target and it had been divided into pie shapes and for each shape they had a reason why youwere shooting where you were. The pie showed that I was pulling my gun down and to the left, it was my trigger control or lack of it. If anyone has a copy of this would you please repost it.
Thanks
Bruce
About a month ago somrone posted a target and it had been divided into pie shapes and for each shape they had a reason why youwere shooting where you were. The pie showed that I was pulling my gun down and to the left, it was my trigger control or lack of it. If anyone has a copy of this would you please repost it.
Thanks
Bruce
Umm, post #2.....
Buy a .22 !
I don't get this trend to buy a 9, 40, or whatever as a first pistol.
As a wise man once said...shooting a pistol is like playing a piano - practice, practice, practice.
There are many aspects to marksmanship - stance, grip, vision, breath control, timing, trigger control, follow through.....
Whether you are shooting a pistol or a rifle the single best item you can buy is a .22.
The cost of .22 ammo is a fraction of the cost of centerfire ammo. If you are seriuos about learning to shoot well it is all about practice. Buy a gun you can afford to shoot!
This thread, and many other threads like it
John
since it's friday and i haven't had my lunch yet, i'm gonna do this:
1 - if you wanna learn to play the piano, does it make sense to learn on a toy xylophone with those painted metal bits, or a small $49.95 walmart electric piano that has completely different key spacing and weight and no real tactile feedback? or can you learn to read sheet music and hear the tones to develop your ear just as well while sitting in front of a Bosendorfer? the Bosendorfer will sound just as eerie playing a minor 7th as will a cheap Casio, no matter how many times you practice that minor 7th.
2 - stance, grip, vision, breath control - gee, do any of those have anything to do with the size of the round that's currently chambered (since it hasn't been fired yet)? i'm thinking no...
3 - what if the cost of ammo isn't an issue for certain people? maybe some hobbyists earn over $100k per year and spending a few hundred on ammo isn't impossible for them. or maybe they don't spend $$$ on smokes n booze n wings n pizza n other stuff, so they can allocate more to THIS particular sport?
i play guitar and i take oodles of photographs. the caliber of the equipment doesn't really affect how quickly i learn certain things on it - but it does change how enjoyable things can get! i can shoot amazing pics on my Sony non-SLR camera that blow away what other people get on Canon or Nikon DSLRs, yet i never ever took lessons or started with the cheap-n-simple gear like they use in classes (Pentax K1000). my eye and my 'vision' is attached to me, not to the gear. my ears are attached to me, not to the piano or guitar amp.
My first comment is that this entire discussion assumes that someone WANTS to become a better shooter. If they just want to go to the range, blast away and make noise, this entire discussion is relevant. Get the biggest loudest gun you can find and blast away at a big target up close.
Your analogies are wrong.
A better one is learning how to drive (or back up) a small car or a tractor trailer. Yes, you will eventually get the hang of driving and backing up that tractor trailer, but it is going to be a lot more frustrating in the beginning than starting out with a car.
Stance, grip, vision etc, have a HUGE difference in preparation for the round you are going to be firing. Why? Get any of them wrong and the worse your score is going to be. A centrefire is less forgiving of small mistakes than a rimfire. Also, a larger calibre will cover up mistakes making it much more difficult to figure out what you are doing wrong and correct it.
Everybody develops a flinch at some time. The bigger the round you start with, the sooner you are going to start flinching, and the longer it is going to take to get rid of it. How much you shoot, regardless of how much money you spend, isn't going to fix it. A flinch is a subconscious problem and has to be "treated/fixed" on that basis.
since it's friday and i haven't had my lunch yet, i'm gonna do this:
1 - if you wanna learn to play the piano, does it make sense to learn on a toy xylophone with those painted metal bits, or a small $49.95 walmart electric piano that has completely different key spacing and weight and no real tactile feedback? or can you learn to read sheet music and hear the tones to develop your ear just as well while sitting in front of a Bosendorfer? the Bosendorfer will sound just as eerie playing a minor 7th as will a cheap Casio, no matter how many times you practice that minor 7th.
Your analogies are wrong.
A better one is learning how to drive (or back up) a small car or a tractor trailer. Yes, you will eventually get the hang of driving and backing up that tractor trailer, but it is going to be a lot more frustrating in the beginning than starting out with a car.
Stance, grip, vision etc, have a HUGE difference in preparation for the round you are going to be firing. Why? Get any of them wrong and the worse your score is going to be. A centrefire is less forgiving of small mistakes than a rimfire. Also, a larger calibre will cover up mistakes making it much more difficult to figure out what you are doing wrong and correct it.
Everybody develops a flinch at some time. The bigger the round you start with, the sooner you are going to start flinching, and the longer it is going to take to get rid of it. How much you shoot, regardless of how much money you spend, isn't going to fix it. A flinch is a subconscious problem and has to be "treated/fixed" on that basis.
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+1 to everything here. Nobody suggests that beginning hunters start with a .338 Win Mag to learn to shoot, so why do pistol guys suggest similar things?
1) If you want to learn to shoot, it is easier on a .22 than anything else. Nothing else will highlight your bad habits like a rimfire, there is no recoil and muzzleblast to hide flinching or snatching the trigger, etc.
2) Almost nobody only owns one gun. Accept that you are going to own multiple guns and buy the .22 first to learn the basics with. Once you have some experience, then go shopping for a centerfire with a better idea of what you want. Besides, a Ruger or Buckmark are ~$300 used, which is a steal for a quality pistol and you can sell it in a year for what you paid if you get tired of it or feel you have outgrown it.
3) Ammo costs are significant for most people if they are shooting much. Compare cheap 9mm ammo at $200/1000 to rimfire at $60/1000. I can shoot 3.33 times as much rimfire for the same $$. I like to alternate centerfire and rimfire when I go to the range, it keeps me smooth on the trigger for both and keeps the costs down a bit.
Mark
ok, so i've had my salad (DAMN GOOD) and now having a fruit parfait, so here goes some more:
if stance / grip / vision / etc have a HUGE difference, then why learn and train on 22LR if the goal of shooting is going to be on a different caliber anyways? unless i'm reading it wrong, you're saying that the stance / grip / vision that you'd use when firing a 22LR is going to be vastly different than what you'd use when firing a 9mm. so, once you start shooting the 9mm, you'll have to re-learn it all anyways... that IS what you're saying, isn't it?
ok, here you're contradicting yourself. first you say centerfire is less forgiving of mistakes (compared to rimfire). then, you say that larger caliber (which ends up being centerfire) will cover up mistakes. so - which is it? is it less forgiving, or will it cover them up?
- Location
- Prince George B.C.
I learned to shoot about 40 years ago. Cooey single shot.
First targets were tin cans...then the letters on tin cans.
Hundreds and hundreds of rounds. Learning the fundamentals.
Then hunting grouse and rabbits. Head shots ONLY! Anything else was unaccepable. We were shooting for food and fun.
Then on to fur. Headshots only. We were shooting for money. Body hits equal less $
When it came time for my first moose with a .303 the fundamentals were in place. It was a no-brainer. After thousands of rounds of .22 I never thought twice. I did what I knew and it was done.
Now I shoot for fun not food. There is no difference in my approach. I shoot thousands of rimfire rounds every year. I use a Ruger 10/22 and a Ruger 22/45 to shoot for fun and practice the fundamentals.
Practice...practice ....practice....
In my opinion any new shooter who goes directly to center fire is taking the hard way to learn marksmanship.
John
First targets were tin cans...then the letters on tin cans.
Hundreds and hundreds of rounds. Learning the fundamentals.
Then hunting grouse and rabbits. Head shots ONLY! Anything else was unaccepable. We were shooting for food and fun.
Then on to fur. Headshots only. We were shooting for money. Body hits equal less $
When it came time for my first moose with a .303 the fundamentals were in place. It was a no-brainer. After thousands of rounds of .22 I never thought twice. I did what I knew and it was done.
Now I shoot for fun not food. There is no difference in my approach. I shoot thousands of rimfire rounds every year. I use a Ruger 10/22 and a Ruger 22/45 to shoot for fun and practice the fundamentals.
Practice...practice ....practice....
In my opinion any new shooter who goes directly to center fire is taking the hard way to learn marksmanship.
John
if you were shooting ONLY the 9mm, how many rounds would you shoot in a year?
sometimes, the 3x cost factor isn't a real issue. sure, it could be 3x higher, but does the total expense during the year add up to a significant portion of your disposable income? $10 versus $30 on a $5,000 budget is not as significant as $1,000 versus $3,000 on a $5,000 budget.
edit:
to use another analogy, i drive a V8 truck and ride a motorbike. the truck is THIRSTY, but overall my fuel costs per year are still less than 5% of my income, so driving a Corolla wouldn't save me THAT much overall (plus i'd now have power steering and gas pedal issues
)You really go out of your way to twist words around don't you....
I guess you are one of those people that go to the range just to hear/feel the gun go bang. For others that might actually want to learn something, all I am saying is that it is much more difficult to learn to develop the finer skills on a larger calibre because the recoil is greater and as a result gun and body movement is greater. It is much more difficult to see and figure out what a person is doing wrong and how they can improve.
That is how a larger calibre "covers up" mistakes, and is "less forgiving", meaning much more difficult to improve.
If a person doesn't want to improve, that is their choice.
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- Location
- Prince George B.C.
if you were shooting ONLY the 9mm, how many rounds would you shoot in a year?
sometimes, the 3x cost factor isn't a real issue. sure, it could be 3x higher, but does the total expense during the year add up to a significant portion of your disposable income? $10 versus $30 on a $5,000 budget is not as significant as $1,000 versus $3,000 on a $5,000 budget.
edit:
to use another analogy, i drive a V8 truck and ride a motorbike. the truck is THIRSTY, but overall my fuel costs per year are still less than 5% of my income, so driving a Corolla wouldn't save me THAT much overall (plus i'd now have power steering and gas pedal issues
Hey if money is no object then what the heck...go for it.
But for me money is always a factor so I govern myself accordingly.
John
3000-3500 rounds per year, maybe up to 5000 in a really good year. I agree, it isn't a huge deal, but I have seen people that limit their shooting due to cost and that is a bad thing when you are trying to build skills.
IMO, the lack of recoil and muzzle blast along with the precision of a good rimfire pistol are the biggest benefits. Can you learn to shoot with a centerfire? Of course. Will you develop more bad habits with the centerfire? Almost certainly.
Mark
Thank you everyone for your comments... All are helpful, especially the tips about the stance, calibre discussions(even the controversy is helpful), video & book links, the bit about practice, practice, practice. I'll do just that on Sunday - PPP, but still undecided on a gun. At least I have a much better understanding of the the problem - the shooter(yours truly).
Interestingly I am looking at Sig's offering of .22LR 226 with a barrel X-change kit for bigger calibre for about the same cost as buying an outright 9mm/45acp/etc. That way I get best of all worlds, and learn to take down the gun at the same time. I'll correct my stance, positioning, dryfire check, front sight focus, breakfast, etc... whew! Then spend the morning with the 226 & M&P9 and decide.
Huge thanks to all who helped! You guys rock(or jazz, or twang, or bluegrass, hiphop, reggae...... anything but (c)rap)
Is Questar reputable?
Interestingly I am looking at Sig's offering of .22LR 226 with a barrel X-change kit for bigger calibre for about the same cost as buying an outright 9mm/45acp/etc. That way I get best of all worlds, and learn to take down the gun at the same time. I'll correct my stance, positioning, dryfire check, front sight focus, breakfast, etc... whew! Then spend the morning with the 226 & M&P9 and decide.
Huge thanks to all who helped! You guys rock(or jazz, or twang, or bluegrass, hiphop, reggae...... anything but (c)rap)
Is Questar reputable?
- Location
- Prince George B.C.
Good choice!
I know a shooter locally who went that way and is very happy with his SIG.
Good luck and good shooting....I prefer Country...
I have never dealt with Questar but I only hear good things.
John
I know a shooter locally who went that way and is very happy with his SIG.
Good luck and good shooting....I prefer Country...
I have never dealt with Questar but I only hear good things.
John
