Baikal SxS Rifles
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I bought one of the first ones to arrive - a 1st generation model in 30.06. Fire one shot and it was very hard to open. Fire 2 shots, and I had to break it over my knee to open.
We determined that the primers were flowing back into the firing pin holes due to excessive pressures - with factory loads! Tried several different types of primers, and some reduced loads, with the same issues, albeit not as bad with reduced loads. But if I had wanted a .308 I would be shooting a .308 not an .06.
My gunsmith determined that the chambers were baggy, headspace was excessive but within specs, and the bore excessively tight. He tried to open the bore a little, but without any improvement. I emailed Baikal several times and they ignored me. The dealer I bought it from (mailorder in the Maritimes) acknowledged that all 3 guns that he sold had the same issues, but that I had to live with it. My gunsmith contacted Baikal and they told him that everything was withing specs.
What we finally did was to fireform brass, and through trial and error, find a load which gave 30.06 performance, without the earlier problems. It is still harder to open than it should be, but not as bad as using stock factory loads.
Interestingly, about a year later I was reading on the net about the 45.70 models being delayed indefinately - until they could get the pressure issues addressed!!! So much for "nothing wrong".
One last point with these guns - your front hand or the sandbag must be right at the joint between the forestock and the receiver. If you hold the rifle in front of the receiver, or sandbag it under the forestock, it won't shoot worth s..t! Also, with mine the right barrel/front trigger shoots 2" higher at 100 yards than the rear trigger/left barrel. Maybe that's meant for close and far shots???
I would like to get a 45.70 model, but I want to hear from others first.
We determined that the primers were flowing back into the firing pin holes due to excessive pressures - with factory loads! Tried several different types of primers, and some reduced loads, with the same issues, albeit not as bad with reduced loads. But if I had wanted a .308 I would be shooting a .308 not an .06.
My gunsmith determined that the chambers were baggy, headspace was excessive but within specs, and the bore excessively tight. He tried to open the bore a little, but without any improvement. I emailed Baikal several times and they ignored me. The dealer I bought it from (mailorder in the Maritimes) acknowledged that all 3 guns that he sold had the same issues, but that I had to live with it. My gunsmith contacted Baikal and they told him that everything was withing specs.
What we finally did was to fireform brass, and through trial and error, find a load which gave 30.06 performance, without the earlier problems. It is still harder to open than it should be, but not as bad as using stock factory loads.
Interestingly, about a year later I was reading on the net about the 45.70 models being delayed indefinately - until they could get the pressure issues addressed!!! So much for "nothing wrong".
One last point with these guns - your front hand or the sandbag must be right at the joint between the forestock and the receiver. If you hold the rifle in front of the receiver, or sandbag it under the forestock, it won't shoot worth s..t! Also, with mine the right barrel/front trigger shoots 2" higher at 100 yards than the rear trigger/left barrel. Maybe that's meant for close and far shots???
I would like to get a 45.70 model, but I want to hear from others first.
hmm - I have several double rifles and sigle shot break open rifles, and one of the most important selections is the brass and primer. I found with my baikal that 30-06 brass brands have slightly different rim thicknesses. I think I ended up with Winchester brass (if i remmebr correctly) being the ONLY brass that did not protrude that couple of thou and allowed the opeining to be more fluid. I also selected the hardest primers I could find for reloading so that the brass did not crater back into the firing pin pocket. Again -- I cannot recall, but the military autoloader guys sure know which primer has the hardest face to prevent slam fires.
Both those selections helped allot.
I agree that you cannot over load like a bolt action - but I came very close to my standard 30-06 bolt rifle load with the Baikal.
trust me - double rifles are a breed onto themselves and they all take trial and error - from the $600 ones to the $16000 ones.
My Baikal gets more then acceptable accuracy for the 100 yd rifle I want it to be. I put a Dr Optic on mine and it is my "jump out of the truck gun".
I did not know that the 45-70 was for sale in Canada yet (or ever)
Both those selections helped allot.
I agree that you cannot over load like a bolt action - but I came very close to my standard 30-06 bolt rifle load with the Baikal.
trust me - double rifles are a breed onto themselves and they all take trial and error - from the $600 ones to the $16000 ones.
My Baikal gets more then acceptable accuracy for the 100 yd rifle I want it to be. I put a Dr Optic on mine and it is my "jump out of the truck gun".
I did not know that the 45-70 was for sale in Canada yet (or ever)
i think that the baikal story is a crock, of all the calibers they chamber or want to chamber, the 45/70 has the least pressure, even my very heavy loads using wfn and Lfn heavyweights to near 2000 fps, only turn out <40,000psi. Factory 30/06 and others are nearing 55,000psi, and i do believe that is alot for a break action rifle.
Well, what I can tell you is that both the 30.06 and the 45.70 were supposed to arrive in May or June 3 years ago, and only now has the 45.70 surfaced.
Yes they are in Canada, and I have handled one, but the price is $1249 - $300 more than I paid for the .06.
Before I even consider that kind of dollars I want some positive feedback from others - especially considering my experience, and Baikal's total lack of support.
Yes they are in Canada, and I have handled one, but the price is $1249 - $300 more than I paid for the .06.
Before I even consider that kind of dollars I want some positive feedback from others - especially considering my experience, and Baikal's total lack of support.
Edward Teach
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- who cares?
I bought a Baikal double 30-06 last Saturday. It had a 50% off tag on it at Reliable Gun's anniversary sale that I couldn't ignore. Haven't fired it yet, and have some brass and dies on order. It could be another nice little brush gun...24" barrels and yet it's only 2" longer than my Guide Gun.
Pedersoli makes a double .45/70. The Kodiak Mark IV. Looks great with external hammers and Pedersoli is know for quality.
I think Marstar is a Pedersoli Dealer.
wss in saskatoon had a .45/70 baikal in stock a couple weeks ago. don't know if it is still there. when i first heard they were making them, i couldn't wait to get my hands on one. three? years later, i finally did. they want around $1600 for it. after looking at it in person, i wouldn't pay $160. junk imo.
Edward Teach
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- who cares?
I wouldn't spend $1600 on one either, nor would I spend half of $1600, having said that, and reserving final judgment until I see how it shoots, I believe the double 30-06 I picked up is worth what I paid for it.
Yess they are in Canada I would love to see one and hear some feed back on the 45-70 before I buy one. I would like to try it with Black powder and cast bullets for fun . WSS price seems a bit highat 1600.00 as ther retail should be know more than about 1400.
If you look at the muzzles you will see one bbl is pinned (the left one) to the "cap"the other free floating. It is my understanding (I never looked at my rifle to confirm) that the pin is not in a hole though the bbl but a groove. This means you can actually rotate the cap a little to get the other bbl to shoot lower or higher.
Check it out for your self or other sources before trying.
PS My gun had the identical issues you describe I sent it back.
Baikal 45/70
Like everyone else I salivated for one of these years back when the few in 30-06 hit the market, at if I remember around an $800 Can retail price.
The 45/70 never showed..then Remington got involved and it became the SPR with all going first to the US market.
Finally I have one..from Epps. in todays mail. Like Farshot , I have other doubles and this is certainly nothing like them, and I didnt expect it to be.
I bought it as a lark to see if it could be made into a servicable hunting gun at that price point...Now up to $1300 once taxes are in.
My first quest will be to find appropriate Rings to fit the small built in scope rail on the gun...if anyone knows of a brand/model with the lug underneath to fit the notch in the rail. plse advise.
It is noted that this rifle is marked only Baikal...and has no Remington markings attached. I wonder if these are some older models that have been floating around and are being dumped now. time will tell if there are any major issues.
IMO...having reached the $1300 mark for these, and now with Sabatti doubles available at around $3300Ca... I am not sure of the longevity of the market on these Baikal/SPR guns..While the sabatti is 2G more, if compared to the Baikal it would appear to be 10G more gun in general
Like everyone else I salivated for one of these years back when the few in 30-06 hit the market, at if I remember around an $800 Can retail price.
The 45/70 never showed..then Remington got involved and it became the SPR with all going first to the US market.
Finally I have one..from Epps. in todays mail. Like Farshot , I have other doubles and this is certainly nothing like them, and I didnt expect it to be.
I bought it as a lark to see if it could be made into a servicable hunting gun at that price point...Now up to $1300 once taxes are in.
My first quest will be to find appropriate Rings to fit the small built in scope rail on the gun...if anyone knows of a brand/model with the lug underneath to fit the notch in the rail. plse advise.
It is noted that this rifle is marked only Baikal...and has no Remington markings attached. I wonder if these are some older models that have been floating around and are being dumped now. time will tell if there are any major issues.
IMO...having reached the $1300 mark for these, and now with Sabatti doubles available at around $3300Ca... I am not sure of the longevity of the market on these Baikal/SPR guns..While the sabatti is 2G more, if compared to the Baikal it would appear to be 10G more gun in general
