Ballistically efficient 174gn 303 hunting pills....where are they?

[kombi1976]

I recently bought a 1942 Lithgow No1 MkIII* to shoot service rifle here in Australia. Since that means using the original open sights the desire is to duplicate as closely as possible the military load in charge and especially in bullet weight and shape. As it happens Sierra makes the 174gn MatchKing HPBT which is scary accurate with a BC of almost .500, particularly good because it's precisely the same weight as the 303 British MkVII ammunition and the right shape too. That's fine for punching holes in a man sized target at up to 300yds.

However, what really stumps me is why there aren't .303 cal 174gn hunting bullets that are even close to the ballistic efficiency of the MatchKing. Admittedly Sierra makes the 180gn SPT Pro-Hunter which has a BC of around .400 but you have to ask why they aren't making a 174gn SPBT GameKing which would have to be close behind the MatchKing in BC.

And don't get me wrong there are some 174gn hunting bullets out there. Woodleigh, the Aussie bonded core maker, produce a 174gn Protected Point (like a Mag Tip) which has a BC of .362, but that's not even as high as the 180gn Sierra. And the .303 cal 174gn RN Norma loads into their 7.7 Japanese and 7.65 Argentine has a really low BC of .262. And that's not even mentioning the 180gn RNs from Remington and Speer. I also don't think it bears mentioning the Hornady offerings since they've suspended manufacture of them.

Any theories on why 174gn SPs are mostly RNs?

 

[Northman999]

I think lots of 303 shooters are nostalgic and seem particularly attached to round nose bullets for some reason. Seen it several times, and I've had a number of 303 hunters comment on how "hard" round nose bullets hit.

Personally I'd like a .312" - .313", 220 grain Berger VLD Hunting for the .303, something with a BC around .630, and that would open up reliably even down to 1400 fps or so for longer shots, but that's me. Something tells me quite a few old-timers would turn in their graves before using such a bullet in their old 303 though...

In real life, I use the Sierra Pro-Hunters you mention for hunting, as they're the best all-arounder for the .303 I've come across. My rifles are also seeing more and more cast bullets for plinking.

 

[josquin]

G'day Andy,

Nice to see you're still in the land of the living (despite being upside down down there.) I doubt that anyone actually knows the answer to your question but I'll hazard a guess: as many of the .303s that are used for hunting have been customized anyway, with new stocks and scopes, matching the original weight and trajectory of the military round isn't a concern. I see that Hornady makes a 174 gn. HPBT "Vintage Match" round (finished ammo only) with a BC of .470 but the HP, like the Sierra, may not be suitable for hunting. I also checked Hawk Bullets (Salem, NJ) but they don't show anything.

Mind you, these days, getting ANY (US-sourced) reloading components is a nightmare, and what you can get is sometimes very pricey due to minimal availability. Now that spring is in the air, I've been thinking once again of trying to get my Parker-Hale .22 Hornet Martini shooting properly but .223 or .224 Hornet bullets are virtually Unobtanium. Hornady has temporarily suspended production of a number of bullets. I've been waiting for >9 months for some W 231/HP38 for my handguns. Nada, so I picked up some Bullseye. Winchester Small Pistol Primers have seemingly disappeared. Apparently things are supposed to improve this year, but who knows when.

Stuart

 

[kennymo]

A touch off topic, but I spied a few boxes of those Hornady Hornet bullets sitting on the shelf of my local Cabelas...

 

[kombi1976]

G'day Andy,

Nice to see you're still in the land of the living (despite being upside down down there.) I doubt that anyone actually knows the answer to your question but I'll hazard a guess: as many of the .303s that are used for hunting have been customized anyway, with new stocks and scopes, matching the original weight and trajectory of the military round isn't a concern. I see that Hornady makes a 174 gn. HPBT "Vintage Match" round (finished ammo only) with a BC of .470 but the HP, like the Sierra, may not be suitable for hunting. I also checked Hawk Bullets (Salem, NJ) but they don't show anything.

Mind you, these days, getting ANY (US-sourced) reloading components is a nightmare, and what you can get is sometimes very pricey due to minimal availability. Now that spring is in the air, I've been thinking once again of trying to get my Parker-Hale .22 Hornet Martini shooting properly but .223 or .224 Hornet bullets are virtually Unobtanium. Hornady has temporarily suspended production of a number of bullets. I've been waiting for >9 months for some W 231/HP38 for my handguns. Nada, so I picked up some Bullseye. Winchester Small Pistol Primers have seemingly disappeared. Apparently things are supposed to improve this year, but who knows when.

Stuart

Stuart!! Great to hear from you, mate! I think we missed each other somewhere there. I probably forgot to reply to an email or something but I have thought of you, wondered how you were and what you were getting up to this last year or so.

The Hornady FMJ is a good bullet in terms of ballistics but it's a bad idea for game and I'd hazard a guess is also illegal for hunting in a good many locales. And even when Hornady is actually making them it's still not as slippery as the Sierra Matchking.

You're probably right about people opting for different weights since they've bubba'd and/or restocked and scoped their SMLEs. I can see the attraction of using 125gn or 150gn spitzers due to their superior speed, decent ballistics, lower recoil and more than adequate projectile mass for animals like deer and caribou. At the end of the day if I took my No1 MkIII* out after game I'd probably find myself using the Sierra Pro-Hunter 180gn SPT with little real difference.

It just has me stumped that they make RNs for .303 cal at all. The MkVII military load, the one which was used in WW1 and WW2 and which cycled so quickly, used a pointed bullet which aided cycling. I've seen guys use Rem factory ammo with the 180gn RNSN and have it hang up in the mag when it hit the feed ramp. Admittedly I didn't suffer that problem using 180gn RNs with my SMLE but it never happens with pointy bullets. And even if you discount 303 British (although that's stupid to do since over 17 million were made) the factory rounds for the 7.7mm Japanese and 7.65 Argentine respectively used 175gn and 173.6gn pills, too. Hell, the Argentine bullet was even boat tailed! But then the 7.7mm Arisaka has never been a popular hunting rifle and Argentine Mausers were inevitably rebarreled to more popular cartridges, often from the 308 family.

Anyhow, I'll drop you a line, Stuart, and let you know what I've been up to.

 

[TargetAcquired]

Hornady makes a 174gn BTHP that I find to be very accurate, but too expensive for normal shooting. No idea on availability in Oz though.

 

[josquin]

...No idea on availability though.

There, fixed it for ya. I don't see that bullet on their website, and in fact all three .303 bullets are "temporarily unavailable."

ps: Hey- what's "my" bear doing at your picnic table?

 

[Eagleye]

There is a guy in Peace River, Alberta who makes a 176 grain bullet for the 303 British that is pretty sleek.

The company name is Chinchaga. [Dale Janzen]

I have some, and they shoot well in all my .312/.313" groove diameter rifles, including my 303 Epps. [2700 fps in this one]

I have not tried them on game, but they are a game bullet, not a target variety, so should work well.

Regards, Dave.

 

[josquin]

There is a guy in Peace River, Alberta who makes a 176 grain bullet for the 303 British that is pretty sleek.

The company name is Chinchaga. [Dale Janzen]

I have some, and they shoot well in all my .312/.313" groove diameter rifles, including my 303 Epps. [2700 fps in this one]

I have not tried them on game, but they are a game bullet, not a target variety, so should work well.

Regards, Dave.

I vaguely remember that name. I even have an e-mail for him in my address book: chinchagabullets@hotmail.com. Is that still current? (And tel. 780-624-8832 , although I doubt Kombi is likely to call him from Oz!)

Stuart

 

[TargetAcquired]

There, fixed it for ya. I don't see that bullet on their website, and in fact all three .303 bullets are "temporarily unavailable."

ps: Hey- what's "my" bear doing at your picnic table?

I did a double take, I thought I had quoted my own post. You can borrow the bear, I'm good like that.

Anyway, I bought 5 boxes of that round when I started reloading, and got through 1 1/2 boxes before I discovered good hard cast lead, and have not loaded them since, and so with 3 1/2 boxes of them left I have not looked for any more. To be honest, they may collect dust for a long time, I'm getting great results with the cast, and my enfields are not game rifles, they're just for having fun.

I do know that Budget Shooter used to have them, but I just checked and they are not on his site. Maybe ask nice and see if there are any more laying around he has to sell.