There was an Outdoor Life article about this, in Africa they had a buffalo cull and it was recorded how each animal was shot and died. The buffalo were examined after and the ones that folded up on the spot were found to have massive hemoraging especially in the brain which they attributed to the heart probably beating at the same time they were shot causing too much blood to rush to the head and bursting blood vessels. Its been a few years since I read it so please don't quote me word for word.
Bang/flop
- Thread starter bhunts
- Start date
I've hunted for many years and have all the awe and respect in the world for wild game's vitality. I had deer with the heart blown out still trotting away as if nothing had happened. That said, I've had 2 "bang/flops" over the years. I nailed a big (and I mean BIG) 10 point buck with a 180 Failsafe right through the heart. This big boy's head went up, he cocked his right foreleg, and then just fell over right where he stood. That bullet liquified the heart and blew it out like a tube of red jelly. He weighed about 400 lbs. dead weight and my bud and I almost killed ourselves lugging that beast out of the bush after we'd field dressed it. The other time, I nailed a doe coming through the trees. I found a clear fire lane and waited until her head came past the tree. I shot her just back of the skull and broke her spine. Before any body jumps in with what an "iffy" shot that is, let me say that my rifle was consistently shooting nickel sized 5 rnd groups and I had all the time I needed to lead the deer. I was also leaning on a rock so I had a rest as steady as a bench. Most of the times I've nailed deer, they wander off a little ways before they drop, but I've never lost one and never had to go more than 20-30 yds to find the one's I'd shot. On one occasion, I put a shot (.308 -165 gr. Sierra Game King) right through the heart of a broadside doe. WTF!!! She just kept walking!! I beaded up and just as I was taking my second shot, I saw a red spot on her fur through the glass. When the boys got to me and we went to find her, she had gone about 25yds. over a rise and dropped. She was dead when we got to her (about 5 min after I shot her) and when we dressed her out, the 2 holes were about 1/8" apart and both heart shots. Just goes to show you.
I had a bang flop this year as well. Shot a button buck at about 130yrd with my muzzle loader loaded with 250gr hornady sst's. He was head down feeding when I hit him, bullet clipped the very edge of the near shoulder, destroyed the liver and exited right through the middle of the far shoulder. The bullet never touched the heart, so we had it for dinner a few days later. The deer never moved at all, so blood shot meat was minimal, total meat lost was probably no more than a pound
I have heard the same thing a few times before, how i understood it was that if the heart is pumping at the same time the bullet passes through basically causes a wave within the blood vessel of the animal it can push a big wave of blood into the brain, which causes something to pop and fall over instantly.
blasted_saber
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- A blue part of Ontario
Last two bang flops I had were a spine shot and a small deer with a very big hole in it from a 270wsm at close range. Didnt hit the shoulders or spine. Just blew a giant hole through it.
07blackwater
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Port Coquitlam, BC
I get some bang flops on moose in the heart area with 7mm mag and partitions.
I've found that moose are a lot easier to bang-flop than deer. I've had them flop over with a 30-30 in the chest. Deer, not so much. 2 were brain shots, one a frontal that took out the spine, the other a full frontal with a slug.
Over the years I've had a lot of "bang-flops" some accidental some surprising but most were deliberate especially in the case of moose which were close to "hard to get the buggers out of topography " i.e. swamps , lakes, heavy timber .In those cases I would aim for high in the neck, base of skull or head shot .
We used to shoot a moose "in the hump" for an anchoring broadside shot but I quickly found out that this , although effective, wasted a lot of meat.
Mostly I double lung moose , circumstances permitting,....moose don't normally have the tenacity for life that deer do ,so they usually don't go far .
I have shot a lot of deer in the head or high in the spine near the base of the skull but they bleed out better if lung shot .On the other hand you risk a lot of "bloodshot" meat if you get too near the front shoulders .( I double lunged a 9-point @ 20 yds. with a 50 cal. B.P. rifle ....had to throw away both rib cages....bloodshot).
About two weeks ago I shot two moose calves, both behind the front shoulders ,they traveled maybe 10 feet .One was 207 yds. off t'other 277 yds. The closer one had a bit of bloodshot meat , the farther one had none....even though I hit her twice .
Two days ago I shot a doe (30 yds.) ....bullet entered just under left eye exited base of skull....bang flop .
I don't, normally ,shoot at running animals .
The " accidental" bang-flops were usually bucks that were shot in the rib cage with a piece of rib or bullet blowing up into the spinal column .
We used to shoot a moose "in the hump" for an anchoring broadside shot but I quickly found out that this , although effective, wasted a lot of meat.
Mostly I double lung moose , circumstances permitting,....moose don't normally have the tenacity for life that deer do ,so they usually don't go far .
I have shot a lot of deer in the head or high in the spine near the base of the skull but they bleed out better if lung shot .On the other hand you risk a lot of "bloodshot" meat if you get too near the front shoulders .( I double lunged a 9-point @ 20 yds. with a 50 cal. B.P. rifle ....had to throw away both rib cages....bloodshot).
About two weeks ago I shot two moose calves, both behind the front shoulders ,they traveled maybe 10 feet .One was 207 yds. off t'other 277 yds. The closer one had a bit of bloodshot meat , the farther one had none....even though I hit her twice .
Two days ago I shot a doe (30 yds.) ....bullet entered just under left eye exited base of skull....bang flop .
I don't, normally ,shoot at running animals .
The " accidental" bang-flops were usually bucks that were shot in the rib cage with a piece of rib or bullet blowing up into the spinal column .
Scapula shot. It is pretty much the shoulder blade of the animal just under the scapula is the spine and the whole junction of the animals nervous system. The shot is 3 fold taking out the front legs of the animal so it can't run, second possibly smashes and taking out the spine so basically it paralyzes the animal on the spot, thirdly it shocks the impulses to the organs so the animal pretty much dead when it hit the ground.
Bad thing about this shot is the target area is smaller(than heart lung) and the scapula is a hard bone and thick at times.
For myself all neck and heart shots are pretty much bang flops.
Bad thing about this shot is the target area is smaller(than heart lung) and the scapula is a hard bone and thick at times.
For myself all neck and heart shots are pretty much bang flops.
I have had lots of bang flops over the years. All were either spine, neck, or head shots. Never had a double-lung animal go very far. This year, though, I did something I have never done. I shot a cow moose 3 times. I fired from 250yds on a broadside target. Seemed like it had no effect, cow just turned 180 and started walking toward the woods. As she approached the wood line, I was starting to panic, THOSE WOODS WERE THICK AND FILLED WITH DEADFALL, so from 275 yds I put one through her shoulder (she was turned a bit). She came up pawing the air and then laid right down. She probably would have stayed there if her brother would have left her alone. He actually got her up! Then I was desperate, I ran up as she took a step into the woods and stopped about 150' from her. All I had was a Texas Heart Shot presenting and she didn't want to move anymore. I yelled at her, she looked back toward me and I poked one right between her eyes. Gutting and skinning...first shot destroyed her heart. Second shot hit heavy shoulder bone and took out the shoulder, both sides if the ribs, and came to rest under the hide just missing the other shoulder. Of course, the head shot was pretty evident.
Bang flops exist, but circumstances have to be right. One doe I shot this year was 60yds off, walking slowly along a trail. I waited until she walked out into the spot I picked, then I threw a 165gr bullet from my 30-06 through her lungs. I have never seen a deer react that way. She jumped straight up into the air from all fours, kicked out while in the air, and then crumpled to the ground, dead. Her lungs were absolute jelly, but I could not find any sign of CNS damage.
Bang flops exist, but circumstances have to be right. One doe I shot this year was 60yds off, walking slowly along a trail. I waited until she walked out into the spot I picked, then I threw a 165gr bullet from my 30-06 through her lungs. I have never seen a deer react that way. She jumped straight up into the air from all fours, kicked out while in the air, and then crumpled to the ground, dead. Her lungs were absolute jelly, but I could not find any sign of CNS damage.
- Location
- Prince Albert, Sk
Of all the results of hitting game and listening to others over the years , IMO there can be no predetermined reaction to a bullet hitting a game animal other than complete cranial evacuation which is not a recommended shot in the first place.
Almost every hunter has had that shot where they knew they hit the animal right where they wanted and know that it was in the vital spot yet still the animal ran or was sometimes never recovered due to unknown circumstances.
Bang flops from CNS hits , seen that, bang flops from vital zones hits, seen that also.Run like a bastard after a lung or heart shot, seen that too.
You just never know what an animal is going to do short of having 10lbs of C4 strapped to it's antlers and detonated.
Almost every hunter has had that shot where they knew they hit the animal right where they wanted and know that it was in the vital spot yet still the animal ran or was sometimes never recovered due to unknown circumstances.
Bang flops from CNS hits , seen that, bang flops from vital zones hits, seen that also.Run like a bastard after a lung or heart shot, seen that too.
You just never know what an animal is going to do short of having 10lbs of C4 strapped to it's antlers and detonated.
Having hunted all my life in prime game country has provided me the privilege of taking a lot of game for the freezer.
I have had a number of "bang-flops", but they are much less than the game that went a short distance after the shot.
I do not believe it is possible to predict a "bang-flop" unless you choose to shoot the animal in the brain or spinal column.
I double shouldered a cow moose once that pushed herself along for 25 feet with her hind legs only.
I have seen a number of animals with no heart left that ran from 30 to 120 yards before crashing.
A spooked, on the alert, animal is much more likely to make a short dash after the shot than is one that is relaxed and unaware.
A deer is more likely to make a short dash than is a moose. Elk usually make it a few yards before collapsing from a lung shot.
Farthest I have seen anything run was a double-lunged Whitetail buck, who made a wide circle after the shot at a dead run [no pun intended]
I paced around the circle after he piled up....165 long paces. He was thoroughly bled out and very dead when I got to him.
His companion, a similar sized deer, ran with him and stopped when he hit the dirt. When I shot the second deer, he dropped right there.
The two shots were placed almost identically....go figure!!
One thing I have never seen is a double-lunged animal that was not recovered within a relatively short distance.
Regards, Eagleye.
I have had a number of "bang-flops", but they are much less than the game that went a short distance after the shot.
I do not believe it is possible to predict a "bang-flop" unless you choose to shoot the animal in the brain or spinal column.
I double shouldered a cow moose once that pushed herself along for 25 feet with her hind legs only.
I have seen a number of animals with no heart left that ran from 30 to 120 yards before crashing.
A spooked, on the alert, animal is much more likely to make a short dash after the shot than is one that is relaxed and unaware.
A deer is more likely to make a short dash than is a moose. Elk usually make it a few yards before collapsing from a lung shot.
Farthest I have seen anything run was a double-lunged Whitetail buck, who made a wide circle after the shot at a dead run [no pun intended]
I paced around the circle after he piled up....165 long paces. He was thoroughly bled out and very dead when I got to him.
His companion, a similar sized deer, ran with him and stopped when he hit the dirt. When I shot the second deer, he dropped right there.
The two shots were placed almost identically....go figure!!
One thing I have never seen is a double-lunged animal that was not recovered within a relatively short distance.
Regards, Eagleye.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I agree, I consistently shot slightly too high for years. If the game isn't on alert, heart shots can and have bang/flopped them for me. Most often they still stagger, sometimes for a short distance, then go down.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I just shoot for the heart/lungs with my .243 and they drop right there. I think it might be hard to move when your heart and lungs are mush.
Not really, I've seen alert game with no heart and three legs go a hundred yards. Seen bear with a 12ga slug entered and exited through the heart go for a long ways too. I would say a lot depends on how tough of species you're hunting and how alert they are.
I actually had a bang flop with a bow once. Sorta. It was really a bad shot, hit him just in front of the right shoulder instead of behind. But he dropped on the spot and did not move. Still alive however. After 20 min I decided enough and slit his throat.
One reason I rather gun than bow but still.. I've never seen one do that from an arrow before.
One reason I rather gun than bow but still.. I've never seen one do that from an arrow before.
In 1989 (the good old days) my wife shot a huge cow moose (7 yr. old) at 220 paces with 3 shots in the lungs from an AK-47. The cow laid right down and would have stayed there if my wife and her friend hadn't gone down right away. As it turns out, the cow went almost 1/2 a mile, walking through knee-deep water and clumps of grass. As we were chasing it, I kept thinking that we'd need a bloody helicopter to pack this out. Turns out the moose died right in the middle of a logging road. We drove out to the highway, back up the road 1/2 a mile, and drove right up to the cow. We had to cut it in half to load it into the truck, and there were 4 of us to hoist it.
I must be an exception rather than the rule...I shoot heart/lung trying my best to avoid the shoulder, and have seen quite a few bang-flops. I don't know what makes it happen more often for me, but I'm not complaining...
