BAR .338 win mag for morose?

.338 for moose

Moose have been killed with many calibers smaller than .338. That said, the .338 will lay them on the ground quicker than most smaller calibers. Most any gun with a spinal hit will drop them right there.

The first moose I ever took with the .338 went down so quick and so hard his rack was buried in the ground. It was all two of us could do to pull the rack out of the ground so we could roll him over for gutting.

Not everyone can handle the recoil but if you can they are a more positive killer.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Jim
 
AlexF said:
Your Sail guy was not completely wrong:
  1. A semi can never be as reliable as a bolt-action
  2. 338 Win Mag is a lot of recoil for the average shooter
What that means for moose hunting:
  1. Reliability is not an issue since semis are very reliable when properly maintained
  2. More moderate recoil cartridges such as 30-06 or 7mm Rem Mag might be a better choice if you don't shoot regularly
I spend my weekends with watch shooters who can't consistently hit a 10" target in at 100m with 30+ caliber bore magnums.
This is seldom an issue with 270 Win, 308 Win, 30-60 and even 7mm Rem Mag.

Alex
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Automatic machinery has proven to be more reliable and operate faster and smoother when completing repeatable tasks then machinery requiring manual manipulation; consider automatic transmissions in our vehicles and in heavy equipment. When's the last time your automatic transmission blew a shift? But I bet that now and then you short stroke a manual action rifle or shotgun. When the discussion comes to firearms, the reliability of machinery tends to be forgotten and everyone falls into the old, "If you want it done right, do it yourself!" mindset. But full auto rifles can fire burts at 600 rpm and machine guns can run at 750 rpm sustained fire and these systems are pedestrian compared to electric gatling guns. Try that with a bolt gun!

While its true that the rifle with a gas cycled action demands ammunition which falls within tight dimensional and pressure tolerances to work reliably, when the correct ammo is fired there is no contest for reliability when good examples of both manual and automatic actions are compared. Marksmanship is easier with the auto because all there is to consider is target acquisition, sight alignment, and trigger manipulation. You don't screw up your position by breaking your firing grip between shots to cycle the action.

So in light of all this, why am I a bolt gun guy? Because bolt guns are reliable with "out of spec" ammo; I often shoot cast bullet loads in my rifles, because the triggers on bolt guns tend to be better, and because a bolt action rifle is more appealing to my eye. Besides, if I want it done right, I'll do it myself!:redface:
 
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Boomer,
As a guy whose Remington 750 has never failed to feed, but has jammed his Browning A-Bolt, I acknowledge your logic.

But I'll take my Eaton-Fuller 18 speed over any Allison or Mercedes-Benz automatic any day. I've blown shifts in bad spots, but sometimes you need to think fast and do what an automatic won't. I've had a John Deere mysteriously refuse to shift, but it never happened on my International 750.
 
I have in the past shot all my Moose with a 30 06, I now have a 338 that I consider my "moose rifle". I do not like semi auto except for plinking, but each to his own. One of my partners has used a BAR in 7mm for years and never had an issue. Any excuse to buy a new rifle is a good one.
 
Boomer said:
Automatic machinery has proven to be more reliable and operate faster and smoother when completing repeatable tasks then machinery requiring manual manipulation; consider automatic transmissions in our vehicles and in heavy equipment. When's the last time your automatic transmission blew a shift? But I bet that now and then you short stroke a manual action rifle or shotgun. When the discussion comes to firearms, the reliability of machinery tends to be forgotten and everyone falls into the old, "If you want it done right, do it yourself!" mindset. But full auto rifles can fire burts at 600 rpm and machine guns can run at 750 rpm sustained fire and these systems are pedestrian compared to electric gatling guns. Try that with a bolt gun!

While its true that the rifle with a gas cycled action demands ammunition which falls within tight dimensional and pressure tolerances to work reliably, when the correct ammo is fired there is no contest for reliability when good examples of both manual and automatic actions are compared. Marksmanship is easier with the auto because all there is to consider is target acquisition, sight alignment, and trigger manipulation. You don't screw up your position by breaking your firing grip between shots to cycle the action.

So in light of all this, why am I a bolt gun guy? Because bolt guns are reliable with "out of spec" ammo; I often shoot cast bullet loads in my rifles, because the triggers on bolt guns tend to be better, and because a bolt action rifle is more appealing to my eye. Besides, if I want it done right, I'll do it myself!:redface:
Click to expand...

yup. Semi auto is more reliable IMO, because there is not a huge amount of human input. I have seen more people screw up with a pump gun short stroking it then ever seeing failures with a semi.
 
Is 338 overkill? Meh, who will know or care? It is more than sufficient for moose hunting. I've shot moose with .300 sav, 7mm-08 .308 and have seen them shot with .303's 30-30's and who knows what all else. I've also seen them shot with .338's, .300 wby's and any other variety of magnums. Have any of them been overdead? No.... Have any been under dead? So long as the shots were in the moose, where they should be, then no. They all died if hit correctly.

Do you NEED a .338 for moose? No. There are any variety of cartridges that are sufficient for moose, and the threshold is much lower than a .338. Can you use one? Sure why not... I use my .375 H&H for deer because I love the rifle. I haven't experienced any greater meat loss than a .308 or .30-06 so long as appropriate bullets are used... and less meat loss than with the .257 weatherby throwing ttsx's.
 
AlexF and Boomer are both right, with one caveat. Semi-auto rifles can have triggers that are just as nice if not better than bolt action rifle triggers.
There are a ton of manufacturers who make triggers for semi-autos like Giselle, and Timmney. BTW, the new Timmney trigger group for the Ruger 10/22 is absolute heaven.
As for the 338 question, the rule for for a clean kill is shot placement. If you can put the shot in the right place, the animal will go down. A 338 put in the right place will deliver massive knockdown energy to do the job.
While I wouldn't hunt moose with a .223, if you put the shot in the right place, a moose will go down with it.
Personally, I have every confidence that my Federal 180grain SP, fired in my Savage Axis bolt action in 30-06, will be enough to take moose.
 
I liked the idea of a autoloader in .338WM Moose stomping caliber.

I even toyed with the idea looking at a used one back in the 80s. I have never owned a BAR, but have handloaded for a few, and the only stoppage problems I've seen are in the long-action ones. In particular .270 and .30-06. We worked out the .270 with a good load.


There's been many threads here on the subject of Autoloader reliability and I have posted in everyone. I have only owned the M100 and M7400, but would not hesitate to carry either.

I would buy a BAR in .338WinMag if it were a great price, even if it had a mixed history of stoppages on Factory ammo, as long as there was no broken or damaged parts such as extractor or obvious costly damage to rectify. I'm sure the right hand-load concoction providing the sweet-spot gas impulse, maybe a modification to recoil spring, or gas port, would make it reasonably accurate, and fully reliable. The Rifle is not purchased yet, so these are not your concerns... yet!

If you don't hand-load, and the rifle as not proven itself as a reliable functioning firearm with factory ammo, maybe stay clear, and put your money into a similar priced bolt gun in .338WM. Now a lightweight stalker BAR with the aluminum receiver and 20" bbl in .308Win for Deer, that's a different quintal of fish;).


The caliber is not the question here, it's the unique rifle that chambers it.
 
I think my next rifle will be a 338 BAR or a 325 WSM BAR.

Its good to hear some first or even secondhand feedback on their reliability.
 
A .338 WM in a BAR will give you magnum performance if you run into a large bear, and will bring down a moose efficiently. The semi auto action absorbs some of the felt recoil, and if you put a good recoil pad on it as well it'll feel like you're shooting a 30.06.
Yes, it's more than you need for moose, a .308 or 30.06 is plenty, but you'll have more reach and be in better shape if you encounter one of the big bears.
 
Sounds like the sales person at Sail is clueless and has never actually used the rifles he is talking about. :rolleyes: If I was his manager he would be unemployed pretty quick.

Before I sold it my Benelli R1 Argo in 300 win mag could shoot factory ammo in 1" groups at 100 yards all day with only the recoil of a .270. The 10" 300 yard gong was an easy target. If I was in the market for a semi again I'd buy another Benelli without hesitation.
 
Maybe your moose in Quebec are smaller than out west:p

Just kidding. Nothing wrong with a 338WM for moose. Alot of guys out west use this caliber, especially when hunting is grizz counrty. 225gr AB's or TTSX's get my vote.

I have been using a 300WM for 20+ years as my moose rifle with 180gr Accubond reloads since 2005. I have taken moose also with my 270WSM with 140gr AB's.....make your shot placement count and you are good to go.
 
Check out the pic of the Zebras heart @post#93...

h ttp://www.shootersforum.com/alaska-hunting/11473-one-338-win-mag-rem-ultra-5.html
 
I love how sales man always have to put their two cents in when they don't even know what the hell you are going to be doing. I have seen three moose hit with .338 and did not go far. Sales man just like to think they know it all...scopes to big......guns to big.....semi's jam..blah blah blah. Buy what you want and send them a picture of you with your overly dead moose and jamed rifle. I am 6'5" and i was looking at a 20 gauge, guy behind the counter says a big guy like you should be shooting a 12 guage.......too bad i already have 7 12 guages i a want a f***ing 20 guage!
 
The .338 Win Mag and 250gr Partitions at 2700fps go together like stink and manure. It is a fine medium bore, and I'm sure you'd be satisfied with its performance on moose. Or any other North American big game. I didn't read the whole thread, but in case it hasn't been mentioned a small base resizing die is recommended for semi-auto rifles.
 
Boomer - the one thing you ought to add with respect to reliability of a semi is proper maintenance and cleaning procedures, especially in very cold weather.
 
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