BAR vs Handloads

Canadian Dad

Canadian Dad

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West Kootenays, BC
I bought my wife a BAR, older Belgian made version in .308 caliber. Quite a few factory loads gave too many stovepipes and as I am a handloader, was just going to roll my own for it.
I have found a good load and the wife is deadly accurate with it. I did see some failure to fires but no primer strikes during load trials. Maybe 1 out of 10. Took the rifle apart, cleaned and inspected. Firing pin is fine and free of gunk.
But the problem is that the damned thing is acting up a lot now. The new handloads are brass once or twice fired from this rifle. The round will load, trigger is pulled and nothing happens but a click. The action is then very hard to pull back. When the round is ejected there is no marks, no primer soft strike, nothing. The rifle will then shoot some of the rounds after. Then I will reload the 'missed' round back in and it will fire off.
Is there something I should be looking at mechanically? The spent rounds are normal looking, no dents or marks. Should I check the firing pin again? A spring inside maybe?
Thanks guys.
 
Never owned a BAR, but look at your trigger group. It sounds like something is wrong between the trigger, sear and or disconnector. The hammer is trying to fall fully but something is blocking it partially. The same part is also making hard to extract the unfired round because it is probably partially jamming the hammer as it tries to retract to #### with the bolt.

So look at your trigger group, ensuring it cocks fully and goes forward(holding it, don't let it fly) with nothing stopping it. Could the rifle not be going into full battery as well with the handloads, that sometimes produces the jammed action syndrome without firing and a hammer that falls but cannot strike the end of the firing pin.

As to BAR rifles it was the only ones I saw ejection problems on, on two different ones with the same person a .30/06 and a .270. Check to ensure the scope base screws are not going through receiver too far and dragging the bolt slowing it down causing stovepipes.
 
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I watched this the other day at the range with a chap firing his BAR.
It looked to me like the bolt wasn't engaging or locking up proper.

Kept me nose out of it.

Frustrating to watch, no doubt.
 
How are you resizing your brass? You may need to use a "small base" resizer die. If your brass is going in hard and jamming in the chamber it will be hard to extract, and although the trigger may trip, it may not actually be striking the primer. The second time you insert the cartridge, it may work because you have actually resized it slightly with your chamber. Had this happen with the brother-in-laws .270.
 
KePet said:
How are you resizing your brass? You may need to use a "small base" resizer die. If your brass is going in hard and jamming in the chamber it will be hard to extract, and although the trigger may trip, it may not actually be striking the primer. The second time you insert the cartridge, it may work because you have actually resized it slightly with your chamber. Had this happen with the brother-in-laws .270.
Click to expand...

Good points Kepet. I forgot to mention the SB dies. I bought SB dies to handload with different caliber Semi's in mind, one a BAR in 270 like the OP's rifle. Didn't get a .308Win in SB though, but luckily never had any issues on any of the rifles my ammo went through including at times temperamental at times M88's and M99's with full power laods.
 
The Brownings are well made guns. I can't be sure, but if the round is not seating fully in the chamber, the trigger will "click" but the hammer won't actually trip, preventing out of battery firing. This would also account for the lack of a strike on the primer. The brother-in-laws would fire factory ammo, but didn't like reloads, even though he was full length resizing. The small base dies solved the problem, because they take the brass basically back to factory spec.(as a side note: they are harder on your brass). The stovepipe issue I would think is either mag related, or a weak spring on your extractor. Only thing I've had real problems with stovepiping was an AR, and An extractor upgrade from Wolverine solved the problem with it.
 
As RememberTheSomme mentioned base screws that protrude through the action can slow the action down causing stovepipes. A dirty gas system can do it too. If not enough gas is getting through to fully cycle the action you'll get short strokes. The last thing I can think of is to verify your loads and powder as you're hand loading. When I first started loading for the M-305 my first loads were to light to fully cycle the action and I had some issues. That's about all I can think of. There'll probably be some guys with a lot more knowledge along to help out.
 
I have had a few of these over the years. Really easy to take apart and clean, do not use much lube when you reassemble. Bars also have very little camming power on extraction, so the idea of oversize reloads causing the stove pipes makes sense. I never messed with the trigger group.....just some high pressure air to clean out debris. For the miss fires the thing i would really do is make sure the pin is clean and degreased, visually check the trigger group, and sizing. If that will not do it, its off to a gunsmith to mess with the trigger group.
 
It sounds like slightly oversize hand loads are preventing the bolt from fully closing. Due to the design of the bolt cover you cant see it. By design, if the bolt isn't closed completely the firing pin won't hit the primer. That's a good thing. Sticky extraction of the FTFs would tend to bear this out.

Two suggestions: get a right angle chamber brush and clean the ever-loving out of the chamber even if you did it before. Next, get a small base die. I've got a Belgian BAR in 30-06 and to get 100% function with used and random cases that's what it takes. If you are going to hunt with it, reserve some cases with impeccable credentials.
 
Sounds like 2 or 3 issues to me. Gas, extractor/ejector and ammo.
The stove piping on ejection or feeding? You may need a new ejector spring. Or an new extractor and its spring.
There is a gas cylinder, piston, regulator and regulator gasket. Look at 'em.
Steve's Pages are back. BAR manual is here. No W's. stevespages.com/pdf/browning_bar_1.pdf
Loading for a BAR is no different than loading for any semi-auto. You must FL(SB sizing is just a few thou more than FL.) resize every time, plus watch the case lengths and the OAL.
 
I have a BAR.

Great rifle, but NEEDS small base dies to resize.

Full length dies, even set right to minimum sizing is not good enough, period. Been there, done that. I F/L size for Rem 742's and M14's and it's fine for them but not for the BAR.

Don't mess with anything else until you try this to eliminate your problem - this is almost guaranteed to be it, and too much messing about is just more likely to create other issues with one of these fine rifles...
 
Thanks for all the replies and suggestions guys! Man I love fellow Gunnutz. Great to share your knowledge.
I will tear the rifle apart and look at everything easily spotted as suggested like the mounting screws (these are brand new) and anything obvious with the trigger group. I will definitely look into the small base dies. My dies are just basic green box RCBS dies.
The handloads have NEVER stovepiped, it was the factory ammo that did that. Federal was the worst but even the Hornady did it.
 
Small base dies should do it,I had a problem with using wipe out cleaning the barrel it would get into the piston and get gummy in there.
 
Just an Update.
Okay purchased a RCBS small based die and ran 20 shells thru it. Loaded them up and took them out today. Was even worse! We can see the bolt not going fully into battery so I know it is that now. Shot maybe 4 rounds out of 12. Very frustrating. Even when we ram the first round home we can see the bolt not fully engaging. So I am going to ignore any possibilities of cycling problems and concentrate on the rounds, chamber and bolt.
So the plans now are to get some more tools like headspace gauges etc, buy some higher end factory ammo for this hunting season and try seating the handloaded bullets deeper. Maybe even try a different bullet as this was all with cannellured 165 gr Hornady SST.
 
Canadian Dad said:
Just an Update.
Okay purchased a RCBS small based die and ran 20 shells thru it. Loaded them up and took them out today. Was even worse! We can see the bolt not going fully into battery so I know it is that now. Shot maybe 4 rounds out of 12. Very frustrating. Even when we ram the first round home we can see the bolt not fully engaging. So I am going to ignore any possibilities of cycling problems and concentrate on the rounds, chamber and bolt.
So the plans now are to get some more tools like headspace gauges etc, buy some higher end factory ammo for this hunting season and try seating the handloaded bullets deeper. Maybe even try a different bullet as this was all with cannellured 165 gr Hornady SST.
Click to expand...


Before you buy too many gadgets, try the following test.
Resize a case and see if it goes easily and fully into the chamber. If it does, then prepare a dummy load with a bullet pushed into the neck a little way, then chamber it fully and see how deeply the bullet is seated. To make your dummy load, take a fired case from that rifle and slightly squeeze the neck, so a bullet can be pushed in a bit with your fingers and the bullet is not so tight fitting as to prevent it from pushing back as the action is fully closed.
At this stage make a real dummy load, with a bullet seated in a sized case, with the bullet seated a little deeper than your first dummy with the sliding bullet.
If your dummy load will easily go fully into the chamber and the action fully close, your problem should be over. Just load ammunition exactly like you made the dummy.

Now retrace our steps. If a full length sized case will not go into the chamber, the fault is in the sizing. There have been a lot of posts on what we are discussing, but the problem is the die is most likely not turned in enough. With the press handle down, turn the sizing die in until it contacts the shell holder. Raise the handle and screw the die in about one more full turn and lock it there. Put a lubricated, including a lubricated or brushed clean inside neck, in the shell holder and push he handle down tight. Make sure there is no space between the die and the shell holder. The case is now fully sized.
Use this case to make another dummy load, with the bullet seated just a little deeper than your test load. If this goes into your chamber the problem is solved. If it will not go into the chamber, the problem is in the seating.

Come back to this post and let us know how you are making out. If you still have a problem, I will continue to help you out.
 
I have taken quite a few BARs apart and used one, with handloads, for years for moose hunting.
Take the rifle apart and inspect every piece of the bolt for cracks. A crack in the dust cover will prevent the bolt from full battery as will the timing latch and pin. A firing pin retaining pin not indexed and smoothed will prevent rotation and firing. As has been said, the BAR has poor extraction and the chamber must be clean and free of dried oil and debris.
I recently had a BAR in that the tappet under the forend had peened itself onto the counterweight guide rod and prevented full lock up.
As has been said, the SB dies are a must, next an absolutely clean, dry chamber.
 
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