Bargain Bin Rifle Scope

[BP7]

Is a 50mm or a 56mm objective even needed for target shooting? I know for hunting in low light situations its valuable but generally I'm out in bright sunshine, or clouds.

it's needlessly large unless you're running high magnification in the dark. it's all about having the right exit pupil, somewhere between 3mm and 7mm in whatever condition you're shooting. exit pupil is objective diameter divided by magnification being used. so the 56mm objective at full-mag (9x) gives a 6.2mm exit which means even at night at full power, it's very bright (about as bright as the naked eye). but who really uses a scope maxed out in the dark? if you're only shooting in the daylight or even a bit into the evening, a 4mm exit pupil is more than enough.

my current target scopes are a 1.25-8x32 and a 6.5-20x50. in about 2 hours i'll see just how bright it is at 20x by looking out the window. see if it's usable or too dim.

 

[MadcapMagician]

Hey Farmboy,

Thanks for the reference. I'll definitely give her a call and see what my options are.

Cheers

Dude, give Brenda a call on Tuesday at 613-394-5023 and tell her you need something under $100.

We'll get you hooked up.

 

[MadcapMagician]

What exactly is exit pupil? Some sort of ratio obviously but in regards to the scope. Is it positioning of the eye in relation to the scope? Or how wide the FOV is given a magnification?

it's needlessly large unless you're running high magnification in the dark. it's all about having the right exit pupil, somewhere between 3mm and 7mm in whatever condition you're shooting. exit pupil is objective diameter divided by magnification being used. so the 56mm objective at full-mag (9x) gives a 6.2mm exit which means even at night at full power, it's very bright (about as bright as the naked eye). but who really uses a scope maxed out in the dark? if you're only shooting in the daylight or even a bit into the evening, a 4mm exit pupil is more than enough.

my current target scopes are a 1.25-8x32 and a 6.5-20x50. in about 2 hours i'll see just how bright it is at 20x by looking out the window. see if it's usable or too dim.

 

[BP7]

exit pupil is the size of the image as it exits the scope and is about to enter your eye. big exit pupil means large bright image since the scope is able to 'gather' more light for you. in daylight, it's mostly irrelevant unless you have a stupid scope like a 8-32x40, which at full power gives you a tiny 1.3mm image for your eye.

i'm not sure how FOV is affected, to be honest. besides, i'm usually more concerned about how clear and sharp the image is at the center (which is where the bullets are supposed to go) and not so much about what stuff at the edges looks like or how much of it is there.

 

[Papaclaude]

I have a few good scopes, and some middle-of-the road scopes. 2 years ago, I decided to try an NCStar, and I was quite happy with it, so I bought 2 more. Then I bought a Tasco 6-24X50, a BSA 2.5X and 2 of the Fitco scopes. So far, I'm very happy with them all and I've had absolutely no issues with any of them. As a matter of fact, today I had my Fitco 4-16 X40 out for the first time. I could read the writing on my targets (about a 12-point font, I'd guess) at 50 yards. That being said, these scopes are used at the range only. I would never trust an annual hunt or a guided hunt to a $50 or $100 scope. I also expect that one of these days, I'll get a lemon. Let's face it, you get what you pay for. If I do happen to get a lemon, no problem, I'll just go back home and put another scope on the rifle. BTW, I've got an NCStar on a 300 Win Mag, a tasco on a 308, and one of the Fitco's on a Mosin Nagant. Should I ever get into competitive shooting, I'll invest in better glass. Not that I'll be able to shoot any more accurately, but if I have a Nightforce, Zeiss or Leupold, I won't have to worry that the scope might give up the ghost on me at any time.

 

[MadcapMagician]

Thanks for explaining it BP7, it makes more sense now.

And no definitely don't use a cheap scope fomr hunting when you really need to rely on it. I'm only using it for shooting paper where there is no pressure and really no adverse conditions.

 

[TheTooner]

The other thing you need to know about the exit pupil is that there's a limit to what you can use. As BP7 explained it's literally the size of the lit image the optical device is projecting on your eye and you calculate it by dividing the objective lens size by the magnification. But an image bigger than your pupil is wasted. A typical young adult will have a maximum pupil opening (e.g. when your vision is adapted to darkness, which usually takes about thirty minutes) of 7mm. So a 8x56 optic produces 7mm exit pupil projecting the biggest lit image your eye can take in. Turn the magnification down a bit and the exit pupil will get bigger, but your pupil won't. Turn it up and the exit pupil will get smaller, and you will notice the image gets dimmer.

Your eyes deteriorate with age and that includes your night vision. In your forties, your maximum pupil opening at full darkness will probably be down to 5mm, and an exit pupil bigger than that will be wasted. At that point, spending on better quality glass and coatings to give a better quality image will be a better investment than spending on a bigger objective lens to get an exit pupil bigger than you can use.

 

[MadcapMagician]

Ah I understand it better now. During the day at lower magnifications with huge 56mm or 50mm obectives you don't even come close to being able to take in all the light and image.

Clarity is definitely a big thing. And that is something that is very valuable. Comparing my old Bushnell Legend to my dads old OLD Bushnell its a huge difference.

The other thing you need to know about the exit pupil is that there's a limit to what you can use. As BP7 explained it's literally the size of the lit image the optical device is projecting on your eye and you calculate it by dividing the objective lens size by the magnification. But an image bigger than your pupil is wasted. A typical young adult will have a maximum pupil opening (e.g. when your vision is adapted to darkness, which usually takes about thirty minutes) of 7mm. So a 8x56 optic produces 7mm exit pupil projecting the biggest lit image your eye can take in. Turn the magnification down a bit and the exit pupil will get bigger, but your pupil won't. Turn it up and the exit pupil will get smaller, and you will notice the image gets dimmer.

Do you use some sort of product to protect the glass on your scopes? How do you clean them and with what?

Your eyes deteriorate with age and that includes your night vision. In your forties, your maximum pupil opening at full darkness will probably be down to 5mm, and an exit pupil bigger than that will be wasted. At that point, spending on better quality glass and coatings to give a better quality image will be a better investment than spending on a bigger objective lens to get an exit pupil bigger than you can use.

 

[ginseng503]

A word of advice - don't buy from ebay.

If the item is any good at all - you can find it for the same price from a real company. Someplace with an address, phone number, website, that takes credit cards, and has other great products to choose from. If they are not on this board or in the EE - they are not trying to sell scopes in Canada very hard.

The only place I would consider buying a scope from is here at CGN.

 

[cam1936]

All those eBay auctions selling Tasco's and others from HongKong. Are those legitimate? Is that where Tasco is made? Or are those forgeries? Anyone know? I've been looking on eBay for a little bit now. It seems that there are alot of Bushnells on there as well.

h ttp://cgi.ebay.ca/Bushnell-Banner-6-18x50-Adj-Objective-Riflescope-716185-/260761201147?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb69429fb

Anyone know anything about this creature? Can it be trusted?

I'm sorry but YOU'RE WASTING YOUR MONEY!!!! I'm a full time university student who works part time for $13 and hour and I manage to put decent optics on my rifles (Zeiss on my hunting rifle). I'm not a snob, but you're better off waiting till you can save another $100 and buy something that will work. Look at the lower end Vortex, do not buy something worse than that. Nothing is more frustrating than dealing with ####ty optics. One of the rifles I bought came with a Tasco on it. With a Nikon scope the rifle grouped 1.5", with the Tasco about 12". I'm going to shot the scope this summer Hathcock style, that is seriously the only thing it's good for.