Barnard Actions

Ian, you calling me a metricphobic? I really like metric. I can easily see that a 11mm is bigger than a 10mm. But not sure if a 11/64 is bigger or smaller than a 3/8.

But my drawer full of scope bases is all 6-28 or whatever those little guys are.

The action is impressive.
 
No Jim, not you! Some people are however. I really don't care what we use as long as I can buy what I need. I think there is only one country in the world that is not metric if you want to talk metricphobia! However the people in that country that work with the stuff really don't have a problem with metric.
 
Hey Ian, do you foresee any significant change to Barnard pricing with the Canadian Currency situation?, I mean, with the actions being from NZ and all...
 
Ian,
It seems silly to say "Barnards are all metric except for the bedding screws and barrel threads". In other words, they are all inch except for the scope mount threads. I half expected the guard screws to be metric. When they turned out to be standard, I was surprised to note the metric scope mount holes. It's really neither here nor there but it just strikes me as strange. Even European rifles use 6-48 mount screws.
Anyway, I certainly don't consider it to be a shortcoming; just weird. Regards, Bill.
 
Yes you are right Bill, I was being a smart ass. The only screws that are metric are the sight holes and the bolt stop. I think they use as much inch as they do because of the USA market, especially the barrel thread as many are not set up to do metric threads, or just don't want to. And for hard to find, try buying 8-40 anywhere but a gun supplier! I can buy metric easily by the truck load here. If you need some boxes for the shelf let me know.

Barnard price is [SIZE=-1]dependant [/SIZE]on the NZ$ and not the US$. I think the situation is that the US$ has gone up and not [SIZE=-1]necessarily [/SIZE]that the CDN$ has gone down on the world market. In other words, no change yet and we roll with most changes anyway.

And by the way, a Stiller action that was $750 last week is now $952, more or less. Barnards are the same!
 
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that must be a leeper of faith

OK bill why is that,

stiller actions are used successfully in BR and longer yardages, quite successfully

and Bill has not built a true full blown benchgun in a few years,

so Bill why does your opinion which, will scare off lots of folks,
seem to be in contradiction of the BR crowd with many thinking stiller is one of the bright ones, look at his products,
look at who has won with them,

now if you were talking surgeon (is that who I am thinking of) products I would agree
come on Bill get real.

Jefferson
 
One of the main reasons I prefer the Barnard to the stiller is that the Barnard is hard. There is less tendency for the lugs to gall. As you are aware, galling is a problem with most US made BR actions. I like the striker mechanism in the Barnard. I like the fact that the Barnard offers the option of seating the barrel on two shoulders; at the face of the receiver and the inner shoulder. From an engineering standpoint, this is more rigid.
I have just not been that impressed with the Stiller actions. That I have not built a BR rifle based on a modern custom action in recent years (not exactly true BTW) does not negate the fact that I know more about it than many of those who are currently active. BR shooters, just like everyone else, base their choices on the "cool factor" as much as anything.
All BR actions follow basic requirements and it is seldom indeed that we see anything truly innovative. For instance, no action has been designed to eliminate the upward pressure transferred to the bolt by the loading of the sear by the cocking piece. Savge does but it is hardly a BR quality action. Anyway, most target oriented actions address the basic requirements just fine. They are all straight, true and rigid. The Stolle (or Kelbly or the Stiller Viper) use aluminum receivers with steel inserts. Most others are really derivitives of the basic 40X Remington design. They are not all that complex.
I like the Barnard for the reasons I gave. I wouldn't turn down a Stiller but stick by my statement that the Barnard is a better value. In addition, just the fact that it is NOT American made is an advantage in these times. Regards, Bill.
 
One of the things

about the Barnard actions is that they are a 3 lug design. If you are going to shoot highpower or anything with lower pressure factory ammo they are fine. The 2 lug design allows for more extraction with much less bolt handle force due to the nature of the amount of rotation left for extraction. Also, cocking the firing pin takes much more effort due to the shorter stroke. In a tactical situation it probably doesnt matter. In any serious bench based sport or where upsetting the gun when operating the bolt is important, the 2 lugs almost always win out. The BAT 3 lug put a roller in the cocking slot to help with bolt lift, but I dont like the design for a non-br shooter. Most br shooters are very anal about keeping that area clean and lubed.

I will put our actions up against any in the industry at this time including Surgeon, BAT, Kelbly etc etc. Just because our cost is lower doesnt mean they are not as good. Maybe we are just a lot better at building LOTS of actions in a very high tech process faster, better and cheaper. In the end, the customer and us both win.
 
Ian,

if the exchange rate is killing my actions up there, does that mean my stocks are getting cheaper here??? :cool:
 
I agree with Jerry on the advantage of the two lug design. In BR shooting, anything which avoids disturbance of the rifle position is all to the good. This is one of the reasons multiple lug actions have fallen out of favor. At one time, many felt the three lug action offered greater lateral stability but a properly fitting two lug arangment is just as good in real world performance.
One thing I have to point out is that virtually ALL of today's custom actions are better in the areas that count than were the customs of yesteryear. The actions available in the seventies and early eighties ( Hart, Shilen, Wichita) offered relatively rigid receivers and not much else. Shilen receivers had the receiver threads cut with an unpiloted tap. They were seldom straight. Wichitas were better but not as well made as today's actions. Harts were really nothing more than a glorified 40x and didn't approach the precision of the actions offered today.
So today's actions (including Stillers!) are a better value than those actions were back in the day. While there have been no great technological innovations, the custom action makers have showed steady refinement; producing a bnetter product. In addition, they have done a great job of utilizing manufacturing techniques which make them affordable at the same time. And they do this without outsourcing to China! Regards, Bill.
 
Hi Stiller,

I have only seen a couple of Stiller Viper actions and I like them. I have not had the chance to gut one or evaluate it first-hand. Without getting into the technical merits of lug design - or ANY other technical issue, the #1 frustration with Canadian precision shooters is the availability of single shot and custom actions up here. Stiller included.

I'm sure Ian et al would be nervous about buying $100,000.00 worth of spec inventory, but the best way to capture market share is to have those actions on the shelf when someone wants one. If my choices all have good technical merit, chances are I will buy the one I can get my hands on immediately.

I am asked what actions I use and reccommend quite often... It is a bit of a moot point if you can't buy one when you want it and I think what prevents many shooters from making the leap into a custom rig is the fact that you have to know which basement speacialty dealer sells the stuff and how to get a hold of him. Ian Robertson is not that type of dealer, but you have to look pretty hard on his site to find info about Stiller actions and prices... too bad really. With a bit of time and effort, Stiller could make huge in-roads to the Canadian Market.


Regards,

Ian
 
Ian

and us have a wide open permit for us to send actions. We are now catching up and will probably start keeping our predator and tac actions mostly in stock. I general, if Ian orders an action and we have it, it can be there in a week or so. Ian doesnt have to keep them in stock that way. The BR actions are another story on lead time, but I think next year we will be able to supply most any pred/tac action in short time.
 
Hi Jerry,

Yes, your stock prices have gone done and your action prices have gone up. I did kind of enjoy it when things were kind of even. Hopefully things will moderate a bit!

Ian
 
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