Covey Ridge said:catnthehatt said:All these screwed up bullets were taken from dead animals, mind you.
But these are not the norm.
I can not see how a bullet taken from a dead animal could be thought of as a screw up, unless it was hit by a truck after a less than lethal shotIf by screw up you mean, too much meat damage and not enough penetration, knowing the strength and weakness of an individual bullet and bullet placement will help. All bullets may fail under certain conditions. Many seem to be a compromise between adequate penetration and adequate expansion. Knowing which of these two properties they favor will help in bullet selection and should be kept in mind for bullet placement.
Cat was kidding
Barnes Bullets
- Thread starter Mumptia
- Start date
catnthehatt
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
Covey Ridge said:catnthehatt said:All these screwed up bullets were taken from dead animals, mind you.
But these are not the norm.
I can not see how a bullet taken from a dead animal could be thought of as a screw up, unless it was hit by a truck after a less than lethal shot
No, I meant bullets not expanding, bullets breaking up, etc. but still killing the critter.
We are actually talking the same lingo, you just misinterpeted because of the internet!
If we were sitting across a table having a coffee it would have been understood.
catnthehatt said:Covey Ridge said:No, I meant bullets not expanding, bullets breaking up, etc. but still killing the critter.
We are actually talking the same lingo, you just misinterpeted because of the internet!
If we were sitting across a table having a coffee it would have been understood.
catnthhatt:
Gosh I think that we are talking the same lingo and I even put a winky smiley face in there!
I think the cheapest part of any hunt is the bullet/powder. I tend to drive my bullets as fast as I can safely in the calibre I am using. One of the other things is out here in Alberta and probably BC, we are almost always carrying tagfs for more than one species, when i am I tend to go fast and tough. If it's just whitetail, then I tone down both the calibre and the penetration properties of the bullet. In a 308, I don't use a TSX, in my 300 or anything remotely approaching those velocites I want a bullet that won't blowup and will penetrate form any angle. Hence a big part of the reason we use larger calibres.
catnthehatt
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
Martin is comparing a 30 cal bullet out of his .308 to a 30 cal out of his 300 mag.Mumptia said:Need a clarification here Martin, what does larger calibers have to do with bullets blowing up?
A premium bullet in any caliber is a premium bullet.
.......or I could have complete read your post wrong........
Magnum velocities.....
Cat
Yeah. Traditional bullets tend to blow up at high impact speeds.
Amusingly, it's not for 'long range' that you really need premiums, it's when you have a long range gun and shoot at an animal at short range. At 30 yards, a bullet is humming along almost as fast as it was at the muzzle. That's when it'll come apart if its' going to, not at 300.
Recovered a 130 grain .270 Winchester from the neck of a deer, and it only lost 0.5 grain; at about 80 yards. Four beautiful petals folded back. One 200 grain .338 Winchester at 250 yards went through a moose broadside. Have not used them for a few years.
That makes sense.
Back to the Barnes or a Bear Claw bullet, will shooting those out of my 336 (1900 fps/muz) utilize the bullets capability as a whole?
In other words, are the premium bullets designed for the high rpm rifles to ensure proper expansion or are they designed to be shot in all calibers with the same effectiveness?
I think I might be overthinking this topic
You may like reading this?
Moeller is the inventor of an improved copper hunting bullet.
http://home.snafu.de/l.moeller/Englisch/Copperhuntbullet.htm
Cheers
Martin
Moeller is the inventor of an improved copper hunting bullet.
http://home.snafu.de/l.moeller/Englisch/Copperhuntbullet.htm
Cheers
Martin
Well, the barnes techs i talked to said they really designed the bullet to operate at impact speeds of 3000 to 1800 for most of their x bullet offerings. (there are exceptions, such as their '30-30' specific xbullet. )
Seeing as you're already at 1900 at the barrel, it would seem barnes x bullets might not be the best choice for your gun. In a short distance it will fall below what it was designed for. Probably still work, but what's the point?
The TBBC is kind of the same - it's a controlled expansion round, and you don't need to control your expansion at impact velocities below 1900, that's for sure.
If you WERE going to go with a premium for those velocities - aside from the good ole partition (which is still an excellent bullet) maybe the Accubond or Interbond from nosler and hornady respectively would be the better choice.
Mumptia said:That makes sense.
Back to the Barnes or a Bear Claw bullet, will shooting those out of my 336 (1900 fps/muz) utilize the bullets capability as a whole?
In other words, are the premium bullets designed for the high rpm rifles to ensure proper expansion or are they designed to be shot in all calibers with the same effectiveness?
I think I might be overthinking this topic
Some bullets fail because they penetrate and do not expand enough to do significant damge for a quick bleed out kills. Others expand a lot and are very destructive, but this very expansion might lead to a failure to get to the vitals. All bullets are some type of compromise of these two situations.
Bullets designed to expand and do significant damage at long range, quite often over do it at shorter ranges. The opposite, is bullets designed to stay together and resist rapid expansion may not expand at the lower velocity of long range.
In my opinion, bullets designed to penetrate and hold together at higher velocities may not preform as well at lower velocities and are not the best choice. Although bullets for "high rpm rifles" may preform well in 'less than high rpm rifles or calibres' in certain situations they are far from desireable for most hunting situations. In most hunting situation lower rpm rifles will be at their best with non premium ammo.
I think we may be overthinking a bit, but not thinking is far more serious, espcially when buying a specialized bullet.
Overthinking is not totally bad, but it is if it is at the expence of practice and shot placement. Many want a bullet that will make up for error in shot placement. I certainly do! Better to know your gun ammo limitations and choose your shot and shoot well enough to make up for bullet limitations!
That's what I thinking.
A .30.30 doesn't have the rpm's to break up a bullet up like the high velocity cartidges.
I already shoot Interbonds in my .308 and am going to try the TSX instead this year. The interbonds are working just fine, but I like to try everything once.
I haven't tried the lever evolution rounds yet........ time to dust off the Marlin
Hence the reason for my questions. I figured there mmust be a reason why Barnes doesn't have a round nose TSX for the .30.30
A .30.30 loaded with a core lokt is going to kill any deer or moose I shoot with it and its going to expand with little degredation of weight. It makes sense that it is designed for lower velociites.
I'm learning a lot for a Tuesday morning........
Mumptia said:Hence the reason for my questions. I figured there mmust be a reason why Barnes doesn't have a round nose TSX for the .30.30
I would prefer standard bullets for the 30-30, BUT Barnes did have a 30/30. It was a 150 grain Flat Nose X bullet. Not sure what Barnes has now?
The requirement of a premium bullet is usually one of two things, either better accuracy or more penetration ( or in some secial cases both...TSX). Obviously if accuracy is the requirement then you would use the premium with any calibre, but when the requirement is penetration it's to some degree calibre dependent. The Stress a bullet goes through and the resulting mushroom/explosion is seriously more violent when launched at 3200 fps than it is a say 2700. Generally cup and core bullets work fine on lightly skinned lightly boned animals(deer down to gophers), when driven at reasonable velocities say from a 308 or 30-06. In both of those calibres I have generally got between 2650 and 2800 fps from a 165 gr bullet. At those velocities the bullet doesn't have to be that tough, however if I crank that up to 3200 fps, or drop the weight of the bullet to say 80 grs then the equation changes. In my opinion, premuim bullets(read deep penetrators) are required any time velocity is over 3000 fps, or I want to use a light for calibre bullet. In my 308, I use 165 gr ballistic tips for deer, I get enough penetration and they tend to spread lead throughout the chest cavity. In my 300 win mag when hunting moose, I use a TSX because the skin, muscle and bones are much tougher and the bullet needs to be tougher to reach the vital organs and hopefully exit the other side.
I hope that clarifies my position.
I hope that clarifies my position.
Mumptia said:Need a clarification here Martin, what does larger calibers have to do with bullets blowing up?
A premium bullet in any caliber is a premium bullet.
.......or I could have complete read your post wrong........
