Barnes vs Berger

todbartell

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Great article that was just posted on Barnes public website







The proper cartridge and rifle combination is important, and normally where most begin. The latest and greatest “Super Magnums” have their place and can most certainly extend the range to which we effectively engage game. With that said, we also must understand that the rifle is still just a vehicle to get the bullet to the target. The bullet is what ultimately delivers our intentions to the target whether that’s simply punching a hole through a piece of paper, or bringing down a large bull elk. We have to match the bullet to its intended purpose.
When shooting longer distances, a lot of emphasis is put on marksmanship, as well it should. However, based on our experience and conversations with people, sometimes not nearly enough focus is on the proper construction and function of the bullet. We are finding that more hunters are choosing one bullet and discounting another simply because of a BC value. For hunting applications, frankly, this is unethical and careless for many reasons.
The bottom line is that a match bullet is designed to punch paper, NOT to take down big game at close or even longer distances. One major bullet manufacturer backs up this statement and prints clearly on their boxes of match bullets that they are not intended for use on big game. This is a responsible, ethical recommendation to the shooting public.
When you purchase a box of Barnes Bullets, you are being supplied with more than just the bullet. You are getting an honest BC value, match grade accuracy and exceptional terminal performance over a wider range of velocities. Not to mention, a product that is tested in the field extensively year-round all over the world by the Barnes proprietorship, employees, and a very demanding, yet loyal customer base.

7mm WSM 100-yard Accuracy Results
FTLMar09Accuracy7mm.jpg

*Note: All bullets were shot in a standard test barrel with a SAAMI spec chamber. Berger bullets typically produce better accuracy when shot in a throat designed for VLD style bullets. The Nosler Ballistic Tips were shot with loads worked up from Nosler’s #6 Reloading Manual.

7mm WSM 100-yard Bone Gelatin Results
FTLMar09Berger7mmVLD168gr100ydBullet.jpg
FTLMar09Berger168grVLD100%20ydGelatin.jpg

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FTLMar09Nosler7mmBallisticTip150gr100ydBullet.jpg
FTLMar09Nosler150grBallisticTip100%20ydGelatin.jpg

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FTLMar097mmTTSX150gr100ydBullet.jpg
FTL7mm150grTTSX%20100ydGelatin.jpg

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7mm WSM 1000-yard Bone Gelatin Results


FTLMar09Berger7mmVLD168gr1000ydBullet.jpg
FTLMar09Berger168grVLD1000%20ydGelatin.jpg

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FTLMar09Nosler7mmBallisticTip150gr1000ydBullet.jpg
FTLMar09Nosler150grBallisticTip1000%20ydGelatin.jpg

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FTLMar097mmTTSX%2050gr1000ydBullet.jpg
FTL7mm150grTTSX%201000ydGelatin.jpg

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300 Weatherby 100-yard Accuracy Results

FTLMar09Accuracy308.jpg

*Note: All bullets were shot in a standard test barrel with a SAAMI spec chamber. Berger bullets typically produce better accuracy when shot in a throat designed for VLD style bullets. The Nosler AccuBonds were shot with loads worked up from Nosler’s #6 Reloading Manual.

300 Weatherby 100-yard Bone Gelatin Results
FTLMar09Berger308VLD168gr100ydBullet.jpg
FTLMar09Berger308VLD168gr100ydGelatin.jpg

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FTLMar09Nosler308Accubond165gr100ydBullet.jpg
FTLMar09Nosler308Accubond165100ydGelatin.jpg

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FTLMar09308TTSX168gr100ydBullet.jpg
FTLMar09308TTSX100ydGelatin.jpg

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.300 Weatherby 1000-yard Bone Gelatin Results
FTLMar09Berger308VLD168gr1000ydBullet.jpg
FTLMar09Berger308168grVLD1000ydGelatin.jpg

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FTLMar09Nosler308Accubond165gr1000ydBullet.jpg
FTLMar09Nosler308Accubond1651000ydGelatin.jpg

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FTLMar09308TTSX168gr1000ydBullet.jpg
FTLMar09308TTSX1000ydGelatin.jpg

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Barnes are my goto bullet....Have been since they came out.
Good game bullet....One of the best....Check my name...I'm a fan!

Having shot the bullet for so long I also know it's downsides...The biggest being consistent long range accuracy and long range expansion (the TTSX should help a bit here).

I own a fairly large collection of custom rifles that all have match quality barrels. I have shot Barnes out of all of them and none of them have been able to approach the accuracy Barnes is alluding to...The occasional 3 shot one hole groups do not a 0.3" grouper make. 100 yards is not the place to establish real world bullet accuracy....Unless you only ever shoot 100 yards.

To suggest any Barnes bullet is as accurate or is even close to being as accurate as a Berger is silly marketing at best.

I like the TSX for what it is, not for what the Barnes marketing department alleges it can do.

Flame on!:D
 
Some interesting info, but hard to believe the .300Wby would only shoot a 2" group with the Accubond...
 
Looking at the pictures of the gelatin on the VLD’s they are performing just as advertised. Massive expansion on impact. I am however looking forward in trying the TSX this year for deer hunting. As for accuracy with the TSX , I’ll be finding that out in the very near future...
 
Something is wrong with their 1000yd results. None of these cartridges are able to keep 1900fps out to 1000yds.
I think they screwed up and it's actually 700yds.
 
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I think those results would be repeatable in my reloading room with my guns and my skills. I'm a hunter not a target shooter and those results look just like my real world results except I haven't tried the bergers yet. With better equipment the bergers will perform better I'm sure. As for terminal it is just what I expected. The AB's look good at long range and the TTSX's open at all ranges.
 
Something is wrong with their 1000yd results. None of these cartridges are able to keep 1900fps out to 1000yds.
I think they screwed up and it's actually 700yds.

Yes, they would have to be 4400fps MV to retain 1850 at 1000yds...Pretty hot load, even for a Weatherby!:D

More realistic numbers would be 1350fps at 1000yds...So you should have the same results from a .308 impacting at 700yds...
 
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:dancingbanana: I didn't catch the velocity. :D

My 300 WBY shoots 168's at 4400 into 0.5 inch groups all day long:cool: And no I won't chrony it... its personal.
 
I've used all these bullets successfully at one time or another. Each is probably noted for one feature more than another. Sandi used a 155 grain VLD out of her .308 to kill this bear Monday night. Worked just fine.
http://4.bp.########.com/_7jT01FlNtMM/ShvwlpTQgXI/AAAAAAAAAFE/-R7GfgFVALs/s1600/Sandi-brown-bear-2.jpg
 
Yeah, Barnes TTSXs shoot groups half the size of the Berger. Yup. Sure thing. I believe you.

Looks like the Bergers penetrated and only came apart in the last 4 inches. The performance at 100 yards is what I would expect of them (and why guys that do long range extensively have a tough bullet in the chamber and a mag full of Bergers for long range work). The results look more like a testimonial for using both bullets for LR hunting than picking one bullet for everything.

Edit to add: Email sent to Walt Berger. Now to watch...:stirthepot2:
 
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100 yards is not the place to establish real world bullet accuracy....Unless you only ever shoot 100 yards.

I'm pretty sure that not everyone here lives and hunts on a prairie grassland. :D

I say 100 meters is a good test as a lot can happen wind wise past one football field distance.
 
I'm pretty sure that not everyone here lives and hunts on a prairie grassland. :D

I say 100 meters is a good test as a lot can happen wind wise past one football field distance.

IMHO Despite wind 200 yards is 5 times the test of load (and shooter) 100 yards is.

I live on Vancouver Island where the cover is thick and the shots are usually very short, but that doesn't mean you can't get into a long shot around here....Open cutblocks and that sort of thing;)

If the buck of a lifetime is standing 300 yards away you will attempt the shot....Trust me on that.
It doesn't take much of an effort to develop a decent load....In my opinion we (as hunters) owe that much.
 
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