barrel break in question?

[ruger22]

Have a barrel break in question, on my new Howa Alpine.
In .308 cal.

The manual says...
1st 10 rounds run a patch with ammonia type solvent after each round.
Next 10 rounds run a patch with ammonia type solvent after every 2nd round.

And let barrel cool between every round.
They stress this point.

So far no problem.

But they say to also use factory ammo for the 1st 20 rounds.
Even if we reload???

1) Why factory ammo for the 1st 20 rounds?

2) Hoppes # 9 or barnes CR2 are ammonia type solvents right?

 

[bcsteve]

1) factory ammo are somewhat standardized. No danger of some suped up reloads. Most manufacturer say that reloads, anytime, will void their warranty.

2) Hoppes 9, no. Barnes, yes.

 

[Kevan]

I'm breaking in the exact same rifle and it is awesome.
With each range trip:
1) 5 to 15 rounds total for the day depending how busy the range is. Two wet patches Hoppes #9 followed by 2 or 3 dry.
This after every shot.
2) Then after a couple similar range trips I start shooting 3 consecutive shots followed by a good cleaning using only Hoppes #9.
3) Absolutely No factory ammo, its against my religion for all my toys except the stapler.
4) Absolutely no Barnes cleaner...a no-no in my shop, anybody else's choice fine but not mine.

The Alpine is a sweet little rifle and so far is showing potential for some serious consistent accuracy, I'm impressed..

 

[hunter5425]

I've had both factory and custom barreled rifles ans I just took them out and shot them ,cleaning them after each outing. I've never had it satisfactorily explained why a shoot one then clean process should help a barrel, many barrel manufacturers such as Shilen and Gaillard do not suggest any such method but I don't see how it hurts anything other than excessive wear if the cleaning rod and bore guide aren't right.

 

[skypilot]

Might want to look at Hoppes 9 gun bore cleaner MSDS. Ammonium Hydroxide is an ingredient. Its why you get the copper blue I believe.

Never broke in a barrel other than to not get it hot. I shoot about 100 rounds and then zero, then clean it when it tells me to.

 

[guntech]

I've never had it satisfactorily explained why a shoot one then clean process should help a barrel

Dan Lilja is no dummy...

We recommend that your new Lilja rifle barrel be properly broken-in to obtain the best accuracy. A proper break-in will help ensure that your barrel will clean easily in the future and that you will achieve maximum accuracy potential. Please follow these important instructions.

We are concerned with two types of fouling: copper fouling, which is caused by bullet jacket material being left in the barrel, and powder fouling. During the first few rounds a lot of copper fouling will be left in the barrel. It is important to remove this fouling completely, after each shot, to help prevent a build-up later on. Powder fouling is ongoing, but easy to remove. Do not use moly-coated bullets during the break-in procedure.
Break-in Procedure

For an effective break-in the barrel should be cleaned after every shot for the first 10-12 rounds or until copper fouling stops. Our procedure is to push a cotton patch that is wet with solvent through the barrel. This will remove much of the powder fouling and wet the inside of the barrel with solvent. Next, wet a bronze brush (not a nylon brush) with solvent and stroke the barrel 5-10 times. Follow this by another wet patch and then one dry patch. Now soak the barrel with a strong copper removing solvent until all of the blue mess is removed from the barrel. The copper fouling will be heavy for a few rounds and then taper off quickly in just one or two shots. Once it has stopped or diminished significantly it is time to start shooting 5 shot groups, cleaning after each one. After 25-30 rounds clean at a normal interval of 10-25 rounds. Your barrel is now broken-in.
Normal cleaning

For a normal cleaning (after a string of 10-25 shots) after break-in, the above procedure should be used, but stop short of soaking the barrel with the strong copper remover. A good rule of thumb is to stroke the barrel with a brush, one cycle for every shot fired.

Do use a bronze brush. Some shooters and gunsmiths have the mistaken idea that a bronze brush will harm a barrel. It will not cause any damage to a barrel and the use of a bronze brush is necessary to remove all fouling. Substituting a nylon brush will not remove fouling as effectively as a bronze brush.
Periodic cleaning

It is probably a good idea to use a strong copper removing solvent every 200 rounds, or so, to check the barrel for copper fouling. We do not recommend the routine use of abrasive cleaners for normal cleaning. However they can be used every 500-1000 rounds to remove the carbon build-up (caused by powder fouling) in the throat area of the barrel. To use, wrap a cotton patch around a worn out brush or a cleaning jag and liberally apply the abrasive cleaner to the patch. Short stroke the abrasive for 6″ or so in the throat area and one or two full length passes through the barrel. Do not clean the barrel like this for more than 1-2 minutes.
Suggested equipment and solvents

It is important to use an action rod guide when cleaning. The guide aligns the rod with the bore and helps prevent uneven wear in the throat area. Be careful not to raise the handle end of the rod while stroking. This will put a “belly” in the rod that will wear the barrel. We suggest that plastic coated rods, like the Dewey and Parker-Hale, be used.

Our preferred cleaning solvent is Butch’s Bore Shine. This solvent is excellent at attacking both powder and copper fouling. We recommend it for both break-in and regular cleaning.

For occasional use only, abrasives like J-B paste, Flitz, or RemClean can be used.

Do not use a stainless steel brush in your barrel under any circumstances.

Do use a bronze brush with Butch’s Bore Shine or similar solvents. A nylon brush can be used in place of patches but should never be substituted for a bronze brush. Some shooters mistakenly believe that a bronze brush will harm a barrel; it will not.

Do not apply a strong copper remover, like Sweets, on a bronze brush. It will ruin the brush and give the false indication that the barrel has copper in it. This is a good time to use a nylon brush.

For shooters wishing to use moly-coated bullets we do not recommend shooting more than 25 rounds or so without using the normal cleaning procedure outlined above.

 

[Sir Plus]

Barrel break in is mostly fuddlore. While some parts of a rifle benefit from a breaking in period (the action), the barrel is just a tube with no moving parts. If breaking in is required, it'll happen by shooting regardless of your cleaning regimen.

 

[Ranger Dave]

I broke in all my barrels except for one. The one always had wicked copper build up but always shot well. It was a Winchester M70 Ranger push feed.

 

[Hitzy]

Never did it like that, but I will use wipeout once or twice a year until the bore is spotless. Between those cleanings I just nylon brush some good oil if it's going to be shot again soon. If it's going to sit for months I brush grease down the bore.

 

[mossyhorns]

The two most accurate rifles I own we're both broken in with a method similar to that suggested by Howa. They both also happen to be very easy to clean. Of course I have no idea how they would have shot or cleaned if I didn't follow the break in procedure but I certainly don't see the harm in it.

 

[Kevan]

Barrel break in is mostly fuddlore. While some parts of a rifle benefit from a breaking in period (the action), the barrel is just a tube with no moving parts. If breaking in is required, it'll happen by shooting regardless of your cleaning regimen.

What a crock !
I hope no one is actually gullible enough to believe this poster..

 

[Gunneegoogoo]

Might want to look at Hoppes 9 gun bore cleaner MSDS. Ammonium Hydroxide is an ingredient. Its why you get the copper blue I believe.

Never broke in a barrel other than to not get it hot. I shoot about 100 rounds and then zero, then clean it when it tells me to.

Oh, you again....with your common sense and reason....

I will admit, however, that Lilja's explanation is at least an explanation for why he feels it's important. Until reading that just now, barrel break in all seemed like witchery to me.

 

[hometownhero]

The first shot breaks it in. Never done the "break in method" with any of my guns. Take em out and shoot em. Clean em when accuracy falls off.
Had a buddy with a brand new a bolt he was at the range for hours doing the break in and even after all that the best he could get it to group was 2" at 100. I was there with shooting with the guns that are not broken in and shooting moa or less

 

[skypilot]

Oh, you again....with your common sense and reason....

I will admit, however, that Lilja's explanation is at least an explanation for why he feels it's important. Until reading that just now, barrel break in all seemed like witchery to me.

It is. Mostly voodo and black magic for the unknowing. It makes Daniel's barrels seem special.

Shoot factor ammo in a new barrel for 40 50 rounds without getting it hot, then do your thing with the zero etc and when accuracy begins to drift, clean it but not like a madman.

If you clean and have to shoot fouling shots to get the clean cold bore and the second shot back to original POI you've gone to far with the cleaning. Keep a barrel log or rounds fired and when the accuracy falls off.

Just shoot the friggin gun and keep track of the rounds so you can clean WHEN it needs it.

My .223 just begins to deteriate in accuracy at 150 rounds. I do Hoppe's #9 for about 10 strokes and then run about 3 dry patchs thru.

I check my clean cold bore zero and then put it away. I have been doing this for many moons grasshopper along with everyone I know in our Agency and several other Metro Task force members and other Depts. along the Gulf Coast. It's the way we teach.

However, capitalism and freedom allow one to clean as they please and I support that.

 

[Gunneegoogoo]

I'm not experienced enough to call Dan Lilja out.....

Agree with everything you said. Do what makes the bullet in the same place every time, and don't f with it.

DO NOT TRY AND FIX SOMETHING THAT IS NOT BROKEN!!!! Exhaust your anxiety by going for a run, or fretting about how a case that shows no pressure signs whatsoever might blow up in your face.

Is the any real evidence, not opinion, on this topic?? Accuracy of three barrels just shot vs 3 "broken in" on shots 51-500??

GGG

 

[r204]

I guess the some people seem to think that the guys over at Lilja, Krieger, Benchmark and a few other barrel makers don't have a clue as to what they are talking about.

 

[Gunneegoogoo]

I guess the some people seem to think that the guys over at Lilja, Krieger, Benchmark and a few other barrel makers don't have a clue as to what they are talking about.

Show us some real evidence. Opinion is not evidence. If you think it is, above you have the evidence of a professional marksman, so you have to take his opinion too - you know, the guys that actually need the accuracy that all of us wannabes bicker about.

Anytime I see rituals and mindlessness, anywhere in life, I get suspicious. "Just because" has never sat right with me.

I'm sure they know what their talking about on many, many topics.

Each to their own, like SP said. I think you look ridiculous stroking away shot after shot, but the world is very big and my opinion is very small. Your not hurting me by doing it, and I've shot lots of groups that show I'm not hurting my barrels, so giv'er.

On a brighter note, ITS ALMOST TVE WEEKEND BOYS!!!

GGG

 

[r204]

The evidence is that the barrel makers are recomending a barrel brake in procedure . For some unknown reason I tend to trust what the makers of high quality match grade barrels are telling me. Do you really think that they just pulled these procedures out of the butt just for somthing to do? I brake in all my barrels, that is what I choose to do. If other people choose not to I could care less. What I don't agree with is peple telling others just to ignore the manufaturer's guidlines.

 

[skypilot]

I guess the some people seem to think that the guys over at Lilja, Krieger, Benchmark and a few other barrel makers don't have a clue as to what they are talking about.

A large portion of putting the round where it really counts, when it really counts is having confidence in the things you do leading up to that point.

If one feels confident in cleaning after every round, then do so for your peace of mind and confidence.

Or if the barrel will only shoot accurately when OEM clean, then always shoot once, then clean, shoot again. Benchrest shooters seem to lean that way and if it works for them fine.

That simply won't and doesn't work for me or any I shoot with. Nor do I know of any school that teaches that.

It is however a constant battle with superiors to clean rifles whether in LE or military duty. They would have you clean them every 15 minutes. It is a visual thing v a performance thing to them.

Shoot the gun with factory ammo for 40-50 rds minimum(I do 100) without getting barrel hot. Keep a barrel log or rounds fired. Zero the gun with your money round. Shoot the gun until accuracy begins to fade. Clean the gun somewhat and in a set procedure(10 strokes/20 strokes etc.) Check the clean cold bore shot. If it and the next few rounds are where they previously hit (prior CCB, etc.)before the cleaning, you are golden.

The goal is to end up with a seasoned barrel, clean it enough for the accuracy to come back, but not enough to degrade the accuracy of the CCB and susequent shots after a cleaning.

Some .308s go 500-1500 rds or longer before accuracy falls off.

However, when you are behind the barrel, it only really counts, when it really counts. So confidence in what you are doing prior to that is king.

Plus all that mojo that is being pushed about new barrel breakin would sound really impressive to a jury in a courtroom.

 

[c-fbmi]

I was in a quandary about this very issue and had never heard of it prior to joining this forum. Which means I ignorantly went about my business buying and shooting new rifles without ever doing anything like what you guys describe. I did this for 35 years and 100s of rifles. When I read about this essential process, and realized I had never done any such thing, I thought I must be very blessed as I can distinctly remember only 2 rifles out of the hundreds that I just could not get to shoot acceptably. Feeling quite ignorant with this procedure I figured I'd ask the most experienced gun guru and barrel maker I knew, Bevan King. I won't quote him as that would get me an infraction, but I'll give you the jist of his response. He said that attempting to "break in" a button rifled or hammered forged barrel was a complete waste of time and components. He said that this old procedure was left over but still somewhat applied today, to cut rifled barrels. He said that the cutting process will leave some tool marks and rough edges and will not give it's best accuracy for several hundred rounds. For these same reasons they will tend to foul very quickly when new and hence the new barrel cleaning regime. He said that button rifling and hammer forging does not leave these tool marks and modern cut riflers almost always lap their barrels leaving absolutely no need to "break in" new barrels these days.
Given the respect I had for Bevan and the fact that he learned his barrel making skills directly from P.O. Ackley, I would have to say that I don't choose to break in new barrels and I don't do this on the advice of two of the greatest gun people, in my opinion, of our modern times, both of whom were notable barrel makers and gunsmiths.