barrel cleaning rookie questions

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jay smith

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North Okanogan B.C.
I have a new t3x in 308. ive done some google reading on barrel brake in. the most consistent info im going with is clean barrel after each round for 10 then after each 3 shot group x3. a little knowledge is pretty dangerous and i dont want to cause damage by cleaning wrong.
ive always used the Otis cable with Otis patches with gun oil. i always clean from breach to muzzle. can i use the same set up with a brass cleaning solvent or do i need to incorporate a brush? thanks i know its prob a dumb question to most.
 
Barrel break in is a myth. The 1moa guarantee of your Tikka does not stipulate breaking the barrel in a certain way. Go shoot it and clean it when needed.
 
I don't think pulling a patch with gun oil is actually "cleaning" a barrel. You are probably wanting to remove the copper left behind by the bullet jackets. For that, you need a solvent specifically designed to work on the copper. I use WipeOut - spray into the bore, it foams like shaving cream, let soak (often overnight), then patch it out. If it was working on copper, the patch will come out blue. Repeat until patches come out wet, but white.
As far as using a cable, I am not so sure about that either - real common to find older guns with last couple inches of rifling gone at the muzzle end because a pull through was repeatedly allowed to run against the rifling. My preference is a one piece rod, with proper selection of jags and both nylon and brass brushes. Normal cleaning for me is WipeOut soak, push through a patch with jag on a rod, repeat until patches are coming out clean, then dry patch, then "gun oil" patch as preservative to store the rifle. Must use a clean dry patch to remove the oil before shooting it.
 
You never need to break in a barrel. It is indeed a myth. Is what break actually is, is wearing off reamer marks from when the gun is chambered. These marks will shave copper off your bullets which will become molten and collect in front of the chamber and towards the end of the barrel.

Take a shot. Run some copper solvent on a mop through the barrel. Dont leave it soaking overnight. Its like a 5 minutes between shots process. If you see green /blue on your patches then repeat the process. Before long you will get no copper on your patches and you are done. Use a brush if you see copper on the patches. That's it.

You may see no copper at all. Or it may take 5 or 10 shots or whatever before you wear those reamer marks out of the throat and see no copper on your patches.

After that, clean as little as possible.
 
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Longboat said:
You never need to break in a barrel. It is indeed a myth. Is what break actually is, is wearing off reamer marks from when the gun is chambered. These marks will shave copper off your bullets which will become molten and collect in front of the chamber and towards the end of the barrel.

Take a shot. Run some copper solvent on a mop through the barrel. Dont leave it soaking overnight. Its like a 5 minutes between shots process. If you see green /blue on your patches then repeat the process. Before long you will get no copper on your patches and you are done. Use a brush if you see copper on the patches. That's it.

You may see no copper at all. Or it may take 5 or 10 shots or whatever before you wear those reamer marks out of the throat and see no copper on your patches.

After that, clean as little as possible.
Click to expand...

Yes, clean the barrel as little as possible after that. Important advice.
 
Longboat said:
You never need to break in a barrel. It is indeed a myth. Is what break actually is, is wearing off reamer marks from when the gun is chambered. These marks will shave copper off your bullets which will become molten and collect in front of the chamber and towards the end of the barrel.

Take a shot. Run some copper solvent on a mop through the barrel. Dont leave it soaking overnight. Its like a 5 minutes between shots process. If you see green /blue on your patches then repeat the process. Before long you will get no copper on your patches and you are done. Use a brush if you see copper on the patches. That's it.

You may see no copper at all. Or it may take 5 or 10 shots or whatever before you wear those reamer marks out of the throat and see no copper on your patches.

After that, clean as little as possible.
Click to expand...

thank you, what you described is what im trying to do.
i can buy that hoppes 9 bore solvent locally. not sure what people think of that.
as far as cleaning as little a possible. how does someone determine when to clean? and is it bad to leave a fouled barrel for months at a time even if its minimal round count?
 
Hoppes 9 will do the trick good enough.

Alot of guys do not clean their barrel until their groups start opening up. Another way is if you chrono your shots all the time you can get clues from that. When that is depends on many factors with your setup and how you shoot. I go usually 300-500 rounds I would say on bolt guns. If I'm at say 400 and am going to use the gun in a match I may give it a bit of a cleaning then foul it back up again. One reason to keep your bore fouled is to keep it consistent. Too much cleaning changes things too much.

There's no real perfect answer. Situatiions and opinions will vary.

As far as guns sitting for months, that's where things change depending on your storage environment. It's definitely advisable to run an oil patch down the bore if the gun will sit. Next time use use it just make sure to get that oil out with solvent and skip brushing it. Then fire a few foulers through it to get it reconditioned.
 
The last few rifles I've had showed copper out of the box from the factory from proof testing.

After about 3 more shots, less than 5, no more copper. Carry on and fire away...
 
If you are going to go with a barrel break-in for whatever entertainment value you can get out of it, forget about Hoppe's #9. It does next to nothing for getting copper out. It is useful for taking out copper solvents.

Storing clean or dirty depends more on your conditions than anything. In parts of BC you can pretty much watch a rifle rust. In much of Saskatchewan you can get away with seldom or never cleaning the bore. My normal routine is to clean everything but the bore, most of the time.
 
I didn't follow a break-in for my T3 which is now about 5 years old. I used Hoppes #9 and G96 with a bore snake before I ever shot it. I probably put less than 20 rounds through it when I sighted it in. Cleaned it again after that. I'll do the same cleaning after deer season each year (probably 5-7 shots). I only ever use a bore snake, and a wipe down with G96 on a rag. It's still dead nuts accurate and looks like the day I bought it.
 
haha way more info then google.
its usually pretty dry in the okanogan and i have those moisture absorbing packs in my safe.
my tikka manual doesn't seam to mention brake in. i just dont want to mess up my gun is all.
 
Bottom line is that copper fouling adversely affects accuracy/precision. It follows that any “procedure” that reduces the rate of fouling will be a benefit. Copper adheres to copper so once fouling starts it builds up progressively. For those with equipment (or hold skill) not capable of sub-1/2 MOA accuracy, I doubt proper BI or regular cleaning would be noticed for a while. However, when every shot counts and there is no tolerance for the odd “unexplained” flyer (say at the BR level) ... I suspect the top ten on the first page will tell you they did a BI of some form...and if they could, some would even clean between groups:)
 
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jay smith said:
haha way more info then google.
its usually pretty dry in the okanogan and i have those moisture absorbing packs in my safe.
my tikka manual doesn't seam to mention brake in. i just dont want to mess up my gun is all.
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You won't mess up the gun. Chances are you would never notice the difference. Like I said I tested the theory on my last 4 rifles. Copper gone by 3 shots or so. And not very much copper at that.
 
JEC said:
Bottom line is that copper fouling adversely affects accuracy/precision. It follows that any “procedure” that reduces the rate of fouling will be a benefit. Copper adheres to copper so once fouling starts it builds up progressively. For those with equipment (or hold skill) not capable of sub-1/2 MOA accuracy, I doubt proper BI or regular cleaning would be noticed for a while. However, when every shot counts and there is no tolerance for the odd “unexplained” flyer (say at the BR level) ... I suspect the top ten on the first page will tell you they did a BI of some form...and if they could, some would even clean between groups:)
Click to expand...

There continues to be some misconception as to what Barrel break-in is actually for. JEC explains it, basically.
As has been mentioned already, most shooters will never know the difference

However, break-in serves to allow much easier future cleaning....nothing more.
Getting rid of any copper before it gets a chance to accumulate is a good idea.
Thus the shoot/clean, shoot/clean, etc that rifle loonys do with a new barrel.

If you have ever had a badly copper-fouled barrel, you would know what a chore.
it is to clean, even with today's excellent solvents.
Hoppe's #9 is pretty dismal at attacking copper. If you have heavy fouling, try
Butches Bore Shine or best yet KG-12. Dave.
 
Just a bit to add. At least the theory I subscribe to... Technically, it is not the bore...but the throat...more specifically the small area of the “leade ramp” ... that is being worked on. That is the only area in a fresh cut chamber where the bullet comes in contact with metal that has been “disturbed” by the chamber reamer. The first bullets contacting the leade ramp start to “iron” out any cross striations (reamer marks) and with all that heat and pressure ...microscopic copper particles that are stripped off the bullet, essentially liquify and deposit (as they rapidly cool”) ...just forward of the throat. Early “teatment” washes out the copper trapped in these striations which facilitates the “ironing out” effect of bullets that follow. (If copper is allowed to remain trapped in the striations/grooves, it takes much longer iron them out...think of driving over a rut filled with clay.)
Right or wrong, that is the theory I buy, so I BI all my barrels. NOTE: I am told the serious SRBR shooters even use a bore scope to check how things are progressing between shots.
Bottom line is to practice whatever you feel works best for you.
 
Hoppes #9 is okay at removing carbon fouling, but useless for removing copper. Gun oil is useless at removing carbon fouling or copper fouling. Bore snakes are not a good way to clean a gun barrel, and neither are multi piece rods. Get a good one piece rod, a bore guide, and use Shooter's Choice or Butches Bore Shine for carbon fouling, and KG-12 for copper fouling.
 
I also like Sweets 7.62 for copper. Texture is a bit syrup’y so maybe less messy than liquid. In the good old days Barnes CR-10 was best.
 
My first bullet is always from a clean ,, cold,, bore.. always..oiled lightly.
From load development, to factory ammo... same condition.
It's a hunting rifle , and thus should be prepped for moisture ..
Never believed in the fouling shot... in a hunting application


As far as cleaning , cant beat a good jag and cleaning rod..
Like the wipenout products.. read label and follow.. proper sized patch for the bore is a must..

Maybe look into cold bore mapping,, if you want to look further down the rabbit hole... lol. .
Personally I cant leave a bore fouled, oil protects. That's
My 2 bits ...

Big oll can of worms ,,,,,
 
thanks for all the opinions and advice. some of the copper cleaners sound pretty intense and i have no doubt they have a place. just wondering of something like hoppes benchrest would have any value starting out with a clean barrel and all. it says it is formulated for copper.
 
Some of those solvents are pretty intense yes haha. Like too intense to use in the house really.

They do have their place when copper fouling is heavy. For your like 5 shot break in Hoppes will do. You are not trying to disolve mass amounts of copper. It's more an indicator wether it's there or not. Hoppes will turn green for you and take that small amount out.

There's a school of thought not to completely strip the barrel of copper as well. 2 of my current rifles are over 1000 rounds and have never used a strong copper solvent. If you strip it all you just have to take more shots to get it consistent again.

But still, so many factors. Caliber, barrel quality, rate of fire, on and on. No 2 people's situation will be the same kind of thing...

Don't sweat it or over think it. Whatever you do will be fine.
 
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