Barrel fluting. Who's doing it?
- Thread starter SuperCub
- Start date
at the end of your explanation.
You tell em double gun.
I find it's typically a good idea to listen a little more carefully to people who have actually done the work and owned the guns. Instead of the multitude of people on the internet who have heard something, somewhere, sometime.
I find it's typically a good idea to listen a little more carefully to people who have actually done the work and owned the guns. Instead of the multitude of people on the internet who have heard something, somewhere, sometime.
Well said.
Don't forget Super to put a muzzle break on while its there.
If nothing else we are helping keep your thread at the top for all to see and offer any help we can. You can count on us.
sir_springer
Regular
- Location
- East Kootenays
Riflesmith
CGN Regular
- Location
- On The Line
Well Supercub I know you are not new to the gun game so take all this with a grain of salt. My comments included! I have had corelanes do many fluting jobs for me and my rifles shoot great. I buy good stuff including triggers, scopes and bullets. I do bedding jobs and I shoot alot. In the barrels I shoot I buy the best barrels I can afford. Currently I have a barrel being contoured by Corelanes as well. I think all this talk of fluting affecting accuracy is pure bull####!
Now with that out of the way I am a firm believer that if you use good components and have a competant smith do your work either way you will end up where desired.
Good luck and enjoy your build.
Now with that out of the way I am a firm believer that if you use good components and have a competant smith do your work either way you will end up where desired.
Good luck and enjoy your build.
BY DOUBLE GUN
I just weighed a few cutoffs I had handy from fairly typical sporter weight barrels. 1" of 25cal barrel weighed exactly 1 ounce, 1.5" of 30cal weighed 1.8ounces, 1.872" of 30 cal weighed 2 ounces even. So on average, your 1/2" of barrel will weigh between 0.5 - 0.6 ounces (sporter weight barrels from Remington, ruger, and a King). Fluting a barrel wont loose a huge amount of weight, but if your barrel fluting only reduced your barrel weight by 1/2 ounce it was probably done with a felt pen. Oh and how do you think barrels are profiled?[/QUOTE]
The best barrels are turned prior to rifling or prior to the final passes of rifling. Krieger for example doesn't even drill until the final contour is reached or pretty damn close to it. Wonder why? Factory rifle barrel manufacture techniques are different. They are mostly hammer forged, when you beat meatal with stress memory like carbon steel is wants to get back to its original shape. Remington barrel "sport" contours, the muzzle is left slightly larger in dia. than say 3-4 inces back towards the breech. Why I wonder. Hey, I give credit to skepticism, thats why I don't need to turn down barrels to know what happens. I take advice from gunsmiths and barrel makers so I don't need to repeat mistakes made by others.
I just weighed a few cutoffs I had handy from fairly typical sporter weight barrels. 1" of 25cal barrel weighed exactly 1 ounce, 1.5" of 30cal weighed 1.8ounces, 1.872" of 30 cal weighed 2 ounces even. So on average, your 1/2" of barrel will weigh between 0.5 - 0.6 ounces (sporter weight barrels from Remington, ruger, and a King). Fluting a barrel wont loose a huge amount of weight, but if your barrel fluting only reduced your barrel weight by 1/2 ounce it was probably done with a felt pen. Oh and how do you think barrels are profiled?[/QUOTE]
The best barrels are turned prior to rifling or prior to the final passes of rifling. Krieger for example doesn't even drill until the final contour is reached or pretty damn close to it. Wonder why? Factory rifle barrel manufacture techniques are different. They are mostly hammer forged, when you beat meatal with stress memory like carbon steel is wants to get back to its original shape. Remington barrel "sport" contours, the muzzle is left slightly larger in dia. than say 3-4 inces back towards the breech. Why I wonder. Hey, I give credit to skepticism, thats why I don't need to turn down barrels to know what happens. I take advice from gunsmiths and barrel makers so I don't need to repeat mistakes made by others.
Check out a fluted Gaillard sport contoured barrel. There aint much of a flute there.
Actually you're wrong again. Only cut rifled or hammer forged barrels can be taken to contour first. All button rifled barrels (which makes up the majority of custom barrels) are contoured after rifling. Oh and lets do ask the gunsmiths - see if Leeper, Guntech, Corlane, Martini and Hagn, custom gunworx, Bevan King, Ron Smith, Gaillard or any other respected smith or barrel maker has a problem turning down a barrel.
Nope, Kriegers are cut rifled. Who said anything about smiths refusing to turn bbls? I wouldn't let king, or r smith, or custom gunwerx work on my wheel barrow. Most "match" bbls are heavy contoured or not contoured so it doesn't make a difference. Krieger will tell you contouring after rifling WILL open the inside bore diameter if done in any appreciable amount. They have turned down rifled bbls to demonstrate this fact.
This is from D Lilja off his website
Although the actual rifling time is short, the preparation time is more involved. A disadvantage to this method of rifling (characteristic of other cold forming operations too) is the fact that stresses are introduced into the steel. If they are not removed through heat treating, other problems may result such as potential lengthwise splitting of the barrel. Also, inside diameters may open up during the contouring stage, or warping of the barrel may occur. Fortunately these stresses can be removed through a simple heat treating operation.
Although the actual rifling time is short, the preparation time is more involved. A disadvantage to this method of rifling (characteristic of other cold forming operations too) is the fact that stresses are introduced into the steel. If they are not removed through heat treating, other problems may result such as potential lengthwise splitting of the barrel. Also, inside diameters may open up during the contouring stage, or warping of the barrel may occur. Fortunately these stresses can be removed through a simple heat treating operation.
I dont know why you cant seem to get it, so I will try and make it as easy for you to understand as possible. Yes Krieger is cut and for that reason they can contour them before or after rifling so are R.Smiths and a handful of others. But there are FAR more button rifled barrel makers out there than cut rifled, and ALL button rifled barrels are contoured after rifling. You yourself said "I take advice from gunsmiths and barrel makers so I don't need to repeat mistakes made by others." And I listed multiple smiths and barrel makers who all have no problem contouring barrels after rifling them.
Lilja barrels are button rifled. They are contoured after rifling. But keep going, you are really proving your point.
Hey I was in a similar boat as you.....I had a Nice Tikka(older one) in 308.
It felt great to shoulder but I always found it abit heavy in the front.
I looked into Fluting but in the end I simply had the Factory barrel recountered to a much slimmer "Mountain" profile. (vitrtually the same profile as my Mod 70 Featherweigth classic had)
The result was a nice well balanced rifle without the ghey flutes.
And it shot as well or better then before...I also had a new crown recut while I was at it though
I've lost count of how many factory and aftermarket barrels I've either recontoured or fluted and some got both treatments. They shot as well or better than before the machining.
I once took a heavy 8" twist .243 Kreiger that had about 800 rounds thru it as a 6x47...recontoured it to a Rem Varmint contour, cut three inches off the chamber end, fluted it and rechambered to 243 on a 700 action, ..the new owner reported 1/2" groups with 105 AMax's.....I don't think the recontouring and fluting hurt that one.....
I once took a heavy 8" twist .243 Kreiger that had about 800 rounds thru it as a 6x47...recontoured it to a Rem Varmint contour, cut three inches off the chamber end, fluted it and rechambered to 243 on a 700 action, ..the new owner reported 1/2" groups with 105 AMax's.....I don't think the recontouring and fluting hurt that one.....
Ya, even the button rifler admits it! But I just realized why you claim no harm can be done by re-contouring someones barrel, you are in the business of re-contouring and fluting! Its like going to the thief and asking if he stole something. I'll add you to my wheel barrow list then. I simply said re-contouring could be detrimental to accuracy. You and your mullet shouldn't make blanket statements, they are almost always impossible to defend. A more proper way to argue you side would be "since I re-contour barrels and make money at it, I will argue that it is not detrimental to accuracy". BTW thanks for posting the weights of the muzzle cut-offs, this is useful information.
