Barrel length advice for a .308

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Tikka223

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I am currently running a .223 for F-T/R style shooting but am thinking of getting a .308 to play with as well. I want .308 so that I can use it for F-T/R and I'm thinking the Sporter over the TRG simply so that I can take it out hunting (it's a tad bit lighter, both in the hands and on the wallet).

I am strongly considering the T3 Sporter even though it has a 23 3/4" barrel. With hand loads I'm sure it can shoot 1/2MOA, but I understand that I'll have lower velocities and thus more bullet drop and greater exposure to the wind on the bullet's travel to the target. Could I compensate with hotter loads?

Has anyone shot both 30" Palma barrels vs short 22" barrels at 900m? Will a shorter barrel be an immediate handicap?

Daniel (rnbra-shooter) is of the opinion that it will be plenty accurate. I think I agree with his wisdom. Anyone on here with personal experience to the contrary?
 
It will simply be slower.

And that can make the rifle "less accurate" at distance.

There is no right or wrong. Just decide what the velocity will be AT the target then decide if that is fast enough to get the job done.

I will be building one as soon as a barrel arrives. 30 to 32" depending on the pipe I get.

At 1000yds, an extra 150fps can make life that much easier.

But you still have to be able to drive it in the winds. That is ultimately the only thing that matters.

Jerry
 
Tikka223 said:
Has anyone shot both 30" Palma barrels vs short 22" barrels at 900m? Will a shorter barrel be an immediate handicap?
Click to expand...

Nope! Its not an immediate handicap. Since there is no longer a bullet weight limit, that longer barrel means a whole lot less than it used to since many aren't taking advantage of it. With the powders and bullets available today, it's quite easy for the 22" barrel to beat the 30" barrel in wind drift if the guy running the 30" barrel is running a traditional combo of 155s over Varget or RL15. The guy with the 22" just needs to be smarter in his load selection.

A lot of guys simply accept that the longer barrel is an immediate advantage and then run that old combo. Well, a 22" barrel launching 208 AMAXs (or some of the new hybrids) on top of RL17 (2600+ fps easily achievable) beats the 30" barrel/155/Varget combo it in wind drift. Actually, it utterly destroys it!
 
FTRRookie said:
What bullet are you planning on shooting?
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Haven't given that too much thought yet, likely I will try some AMAXs since there's about as common as Pepsi out this way. My favorite bullets thus far are the Bergers so will have to try some of the heavy hybrids.

.308 is uncharted territory for me really, I've blasted off a few rounds of the stuff in a Norc M305 but that's about it.
 
If shooting a light rifle, I'd be more inclined to try something along the lines of 155.5/h4895, than one of the heavies. The sported stock is not designed to be shot prone, and combined with the lighter overall weight of the rifle, it is really going to pound on you over a full day of shooting. The heavier bullets will make it worse. This is not to dissuade you from the .308. Just think about what you need the rifle to do- hunt, or compete. The sporter will do both, but it isn't ideal for F/TR.
 
Longshot said:
But when you have a 30 inch pipe shooting 208 amax or the likes, then what happens? ;) Like Jerry said its all up to the driver really.
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Point is: how many do? Many guys just assume that the longer tube automatically gives them an advantage, then they shoot a mediocre load that only gives them one if the other guy is shooting the same load. Adding length and weight to your barrel is pointless if you aren't going to shoot a load that takes advantage of the extra length. The shorter tube is only at a disadvantage to the shooters who understand internal and external ballistics (if you load it right).

The other thing is that while the longer barrel may have a higher maximum velocity, that doesn't mean that the loads will tune to a higher velocity. The nodes may fall on similar velocities to those in shorter barrels. 8" will get you to a higher node for sure, but 2 or 4" may not.
 
mpwolf said:
If shooting a light rifle, I'd be more inclined to try something along the lines of 155.5/h4895, than one of the heavies. The sported stock is not designed to be shot prone, and combined with the lighter overall weight of the rifle, it is really going to pound on you over a full day of shooting. The heavier bullets will make it worse. This is not to dissuade you from the .308. Just think about what you need the rifle to do- hunt, or compete. The sporter will do both, but it isn't ideal for F/TR.
Click to expand...

Looking at photos of the Sporter and TRG they both look very similar in profile. Is the TRG not set up for prone shooting?
 
kombayotch,
you have neglected to mention that a person with a 30" barrel is 8" CLOSER to the target than the fellow shooting beside him with a 22" barrel......

Sorry...I couldn't resist.
Too much sun today.
Gord
 
ONT0001 said:
kombayotch,
you have neglected to mention that a person with a 30" barrel is 8" CLOSER to the target than the fellow shooting beside him with a 22" barrel......

Sorry...I couldn't resist.
Too much sun today.
Gord
Click to expand...

You Easterners are a crafty bunch that is why out west, the strategic randome placement of cow patties along the firing line removes any chance of gaming.

Sometimes you want to be closer,

sometimes, back is just fine....:rockOn:

Jerry
 
In my own experience, a .308 bullet leaving the barrel at 2650 fps if it is a 26", 24" or 20" long barrel will get to 900 meters no problem. You just have to make sure you have the velocity. Tailor the load to the rifle.
 
(posting here an email I just sent to Tikka223....):

A 30" barrelled .308Win target rifle can shoot 155s at 3000fps (this is a nice, hot, well-developed load).

A 24" barrel might lose you 120fps-180fps versus the 30" barrel. For this discussion, let's go with a 150fps speed loss from the 24" barrel versus the 30".

If you fire a 155 at 3000fps, it has lost 150fps after it has travelled 67 metres. So in a sense, you can say that a 24" barrelled .308 "loses" 67 metres of range versus a 30" barrelled .308. Or, a 24" .308 at 900m is (pretty much) equivalent to a 30" .308 at 967 metres.

Let's say you are shooting Berger 155.5 Fullbore bullets (a very good choice of a modern, high-performance, easy-to-get-shooting-well bullet). In my 30" barrelled .308, with a muzzle velocity of 3000fps, here are some numbers (assuming "standard atmospheric conditions", which is sea level, 15C air temp).

155.5(Litz) @ 3000fps muzzle velocity:
800m: bullet speed=1480fps, wind drift from 10mph crosswind=65.4"
900m: speed=1326fps, drift=87.4"

155.5(Litz) @ 2850fps m.v.
800m: speed=1375fps, drift=71.3"
900m: speed=1228fps, drift=95.5"


Now before we had these wonderful new 155s, everybody shot the only 155 bullet there was, the "old" Sierra 155. At the time, it was by far the best bullet around, and 2950fps was considered a pretty hot load, 3000fps was faster than most people were willing to push things. That bullet at 3000fps *underperforms* one of the nice new 155s at 2850fps (that you can get from a 24" barrel):

Sierra "old" (#2155) 155(Litz) @ 3000fps m.v.:
800m: speed=1347fps, drift=76"
900m: speed=1187fps, drift=102.3"

So I would say you ought to be able to get good results at 900m from a 24" barrel and carefully-chosen modern bullets.
 
Tikka223,

I suggest you read "Cartridges 1000y .308 Load Development" by Germain Salazar at ....riflemansjournal.########.ca.....this may help.

Hetzenauer
 
I bought a T3 Sporter and it sports a 23 3/4" barrel. I guess I'll have to see how it goes. I read the above article and it looks like I'll just need enough velocity to keep the bullet above 1.2 Mach at 1000yrds. If I can do that, it should shoot accurately.
 
You should have no problem finding a load that can be made to work. BUT- be warned-If you do much match shooting, it won't be long before you'll get a case of the hot running wants for a dedicated match gun.

see you on the range, ;-)
 
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