Barrel length legalities...

Mike, I guess it depends whether it is a bolt or semi-auto.

Basically I can't cut my Mini-30 back any more with out turning into a restricted weapon.. I guess I will have to install a bull barrel then to get rid of some harmonics..

Thanks everyone.
 
haha49 said:
It only includes the muzzle break if it's permanently attached and the barrel was made that way which means it has to be made with the barrel then welded on so it can't come off. For example the bond arms snake slayer has a 4.2 inch barrel 3 inches is chamber for shotgun shell so you really only have a 1.2 inch of rifle barrel to shoot out of.
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Welding the muzzle attachment to achieve barrel length is US law. In Canada, barrel length is from the tip of the muzzle to the end of the chamber (except in a revolver - cylinder not counted). It includes the chamber, but not any muzzle attachments. A break that is created by machining it into the muzzle of the barrel is part of the barrel and is counted in barrel length. That is not an attachment. Muzzle attachments are only counted in OAL of the entire firearms whether permanently attached or not.

A lot of people call the RCMP to ask and get confused between barrel length and overall length of the firearm because they tend to mention both when you ask.
 
Allen Gun Works said:
So, if I make a 16" 300BLK barrel and add a 1" recessed crown, does that make it a 15" barrel? Should still meet the 26" OAL.
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For sure it would meet the OAL, but doesn't the FA state somewhere about the barrel having continuous rifling and that is what is considered actual barrel length?

So recessing the crown by one inch would be losing one inch of rifling??
 
Perhaps a silly question, buuuut.....

Why on earth would one want to shorten that which has a great deal of effect on keeping a rifle accurate?
 
As said already, accruacy isn't dependent on barrel length - velocity is. Seeing how .300 BLK is very efficient at short barrel lengths, going long is simply unnecessary.
 
2bad4u2 said:
The legal definition of a prohibited firearm is as follows:

Definition of a Prohibited Firearm
The Criminal Code states that a prohibited firearm is:

•a handgun with a barrel length of 105 mm or less;
•a handgun designed or adapted to discharge 25 or 32 calibre ammunition;
•a rifle or shotgun that has been altered to make it less than 660 mm (26 inches) in overall length;
•a rifle or shotgun that has been altered to make the barrel length less than 457 mm (18 inches) where the overall firearm length is 660 mm (26 inches) or more;
•an automatic firearm and a converted automatic firearm;
•any firearm prescribed as prohibited.

If you read this carefully, it states that any alteration to a rifle or shotgun that leads to the barrel being less than 18" (restricted) classifies the firearm as prohibited.

Based on what I see here, shortening an existing finished barrel or furinshing one from a blank constitutes an alteration to an existing rifle or shotgun. There doesn't appear to be a free pass here for custom barrel lengths less than 18" made from barrel blanks.
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Here is where it gets dicy in my opinion.
When using the bold statement. "a rifle or shotgun that has been altered to make the barrel length less than 457 mm (18 inches) where the overall firearm length is 660 mm (26 inches) or more"

Lets assume you take a Remington 700 SPS Tactical which has a 20" barrel from the factory for example.
Lets assume for a minute that you are in quebec where the registry still exists.
You replace the barrel with a 16" barrel from a barrel blank of the appropriate size.
Are you not altering the firearm making it a prohibited device since it was registered with a longer barrel?
Would it make a difference if you bought a brand new action which was never in a rifle and built upon it?

I'm not trying to add layers of tinfoil but just reading the wording as I see it in front of me.
 
The main thing you are all missing is that the receiver is the firearm... the rest of the bits are only a firearm when attached to the receiver. ... Oh wait.... you;re trying to apply logic to something that is fundamentally illogical, and has contradictions written into it. :D


The information as posted from the RCMP is what matters as it is the ... wait for it...
"interpretation"
...that the RCMP, who enforces national laws, will use on you and your firearms. Interpretation is vital to all laws and is why lawyers and judges have to try a case in court to determine the validity of the interpretation. And further there may be somewhat different and divergent interpretations come from different courts. There is some effort made to make sure the principle and interpretation is consistent hence citing prior cases. And why lawyers have vast libraries of case law to refer to.

So to whit, have a barrel made from raw stock (Barrel blank) rather than cut down from a finished barrel to whatever length and still keep the overall length over 26" and you're good to go... IF its the information provided and applied consistently then that makes it binding under common law and precedent.

I'm not a lawyer and I suspect most of this has never been tried so its not been put to the test so take as much of this with a grain of salt as you like. Basically what I'm saying is you can take the RCMP's best guess or you can make your own best guess on interpretation and then leave it up to the courts to sort it out... if it makes it that far. Your choice which expert to believe. Me I'll go with the RCMP on this one...
 
When I did my second SBR bolt gun with a 11.5" custom barrel, my gunsmith said the local firearms officer "just happend to drop by" and pay him a visit while said gunsmith was working on my rifle. Imagine that? What a coincidence! :rolleyes: I suspect the CFO was called intentionally and the firearms officer was called in to examine the rifle in order to make a dtermination on the behalf of the gunsmith. Can't blame my 'smith for wanting to stay out of trouble under the circumstances, however, I wasn't informed of the situation til I went to pick up the rifle.

Remember, for the most part, our laws tells us what is "illegal". Therefore, anything that is not deemed "illegal" is by definition, "legal". I called the RCMP Lab for clarrification - not permission.
 
what appears to be inconsistent on the part of barrel length is what or whom you speak too.During the period when we had to register I had an old .303 and when I called to register the person I spoke to said to measure the barrel with a cartridge in the chamber and stick a cleaning rod down the barrel insert rod mark and give them the measurement. that was the barrel lenght.Some time later I recieved I discovered that I had somehow given the same serial# for two of my browning BBRs When I called to get it fixed I was told to measure to the bolt face. (action closed) So now I have two different lengths of barrel listed for what is basiclly the same rifle.I explained this to the person I was talking to and was told this is the way it is.. so what can you do? so I take anything they say with a grain of salt. and hope it don't come back and bite me in the a-s
 
A hypothetical question!!!

So hypothetical question, Say I have a 16" barrel or even a 10.5" barrel made from a barrel blank by a gunsmith, and I put it on, oh.... I don't know...... say a sporterized Lee Enfield.
One barrel measures 16", and the other barrel measures 10.5", the Lee Enfield minus it's original barrel from front of action to rear butt pad equals 19.5".

If I add the two together, the barrel 16" plus Sporterized Lee Enfield action and stock 19.5", it makes 35.5". That's 9.5" longer than the minimum legal limit of 26"
or with the 10.5" barrel plus the Enfield make it 30", that's 4" longer than the minimum legal limit of 26".
All the work would be done by a gunsmith not me.

Would this make it a prohibited weapon? Would it changes its classification from Non-Restricted to Restricted?

Again just a hypothetical question, not something I would consider doing...... cou:

Merry Christmas and have a Happy New Year everyone!
-Steve
 
Steve.30-06 said:
So hypothetical question, Say I have a 16" barrel or even a 10.5" barrel made from a barrel blank by a gunsmith, and I put it on, oh.... I don't know...... say a sporterized Lee Enfield.
One barrel measures 16", and the other barrel measures 10.5", the Lee Enfield minus it's original barrel from front of action to rear butt pad equals 19.5".

If I add the two together, the barrel 16" plus Sporterized Lee Enfield action and stock 19.5", it makes 35.5". That's 9.5" longer than the minimum legal limit of 26"
or with the 10.5" barrel plus the Enfield make it 30", that's 4" longer than the minimum legal limit of 26".
All the work would be done by a gunsmith not me.

Would this make it a prohibited weapon? Would it changes its classification from Non-Restricted to Restricted?

Again just a hypothetical question, not something I would consider doing...... cou:

Merry Christmas and have a Happy New Year everyone!
-Steve
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This is the very same topic that this thread is about. Installing custom barrels made from barrel blanks on manual repeating firearms less than 18" in length with an overall firearm 26" and/or greater. According to the lab tech I talked to you are fine and in the clear. There's no requirement for a gunsmith to do the work. You could perform the barrel work yourself. Why would it make a difference?

As I previously stated, my gunsmith even had the local firearms officer by his shop to check things out and he was ok with it. Frankly, I'm not worried.
 
Not all gunsmiths have a manufacturing licence. Gunsmiths can't cut barrels under 18" unless they have such a licence and can then can manufacture a barrel of a shorter length. eg. DLASK Arms as they have a manufacturing licence, they are able to manufacture 8.5-6.5" shotgun barrels or short rifle barrels.
 
Cutting an existing barrel on a firearm is one thing. Making a barrel from a blank is another. It has nothing to do with manufacturing licences. Cutting an existing barrel on a firearm creates a prohibited firearm; doesn't matter who does it.
I bet that if you check, Dlask's short barrels are scratch built.
 
Once this is done, we can then proceed to creating an FRT entry so that the registration for the rifle can be amended.
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Deckard said:
So they still register bolt actions?
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This was my question as well....or is the letter's intent just setting the recipient up for registering the firearms as 'restricted' ? In which case the issue of barrel length is moot - till it gets to 12/6
 
tiriaq said:
Cutting an existing barrel on a firearm is one thing. Making a barrel from a blank is another. It has nothing to do with manufacturing licences. Cutting an existing barrel on a firearm creates a prohibited firearm; doesn't matter who does it.
I bet that if you check, Dlask's short barrels are scratch built.
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This is correct. Dlask's short 870 barrels are scratch built, they are not cut down factory 870 barrels.
 
I am looking to build a 13" maybe shorter 700 in 300blk. Hope to have pics up soon.
 
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