Barrel length - shorter or longer?

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mchaley

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I was doing some reading about precision shooting and wanted to get some input. I read that when a round goes down the pipe, the barrel moves around slightly. This is why a heavy bull barrel is better than a traditional barrel.

Now, this is where things get questionable. I understand a long barrel usually means more velocity. However a longer barrel means a more magnified effect when the barrel moves around slightly. Shorter barrel = less velocity but maybe more precise?
 
The are alot of long barrels out there shooting tiny groups (some are 30"+). I would be more concerned with action stiffness and how that action is anchored into the stock than barrel whip.
 
I noticed cutting my 30" down to a 22" increased accuracy. If youre not using a 30" (or a longer barrel) to its full potential, than youre just hauling extra weight. If you want a longer barrel make sure you're getting a full powder burn.

There's also the debate of a shorter and stiffer barrel is better for harmonics, however there is a fps drawback. In my current setup, I'm not looking back. I love the shorter setups.
 
let's take 308 Win for example with premium ammo Federal Gold Medal 168gr
BC 0.462

say you want to shoot 1000yds
the velocity (as measured here) is:
22" barrel 2597fps at the muzzle, 1165fps at 1000yds
28" barrel 2706fps at the muzzle, 1214fps at 1000yds

what this means is, with the 22" at 1000y the bullet is in the transonic range, perhaps just getting subsonic, and this most likely will have a negative impact on accuracy.
with the 28" barrel your bullet at the target is supersonic, out of the transonic range => better accuracy.
 
mchaley said:
I was doing some reading about precision shooting and wanted to get some input. I read that when a round goes down the pipe, the barrel moves around slightly. This is why a heavy bull barrel is better than a traditional barrel.

Now, this is where things get questionable. I understand a long barrel usually means more velocity. However a longer barrel means a more magnified effect when the barrel moves around slightly. Shorter barrel = less velocity but maybe more precise?
Click to expand...

I think you need to research 1000yd BR and F class rifles. Here you will find a wide range of long barreled rifles shooting accurately with a very high degree of precision.

Today, with the right gunsmith, parts and set up, you can make it work. You just need to not corners or "want" to make this or that work. There are answers to any and all set ups you are thinking about.

Not much that isn't used nor experimented with these days.

With any enquiry to me, I ask customers to start with the end use goals and application... the parts and how to put them together is simple after that.

No use asking and debating what is the best knife in the world when all you really want to do is drink a bowl of soup.....

Jerry
 
I'd like to buy a rifle that can reach out to 1000 yards. I'd like it in .308 and it'll be target only - no hunting that I'm expecting at this point in time. I'll get a decent optic and a bipod.

1000 yard shots are the goal at this point. I have essentially zero precision rifle experience.

Also, I don't reload but I'm saving brass for a rainy day.
 
If 1000y is the goal, I wouldn't advise a barrel shorter than 24".....

I have a savage 10TR 24" barrel.

My go to 168SMK hand load is reliable out to 800y. At about 850 it goes transonic, and I can't seem to get reliable hits past 800....

When shooting Hornady Superperformance 168 A-max ammunition, I get 200 fps greater velocity. That gets me to 1000 y with reliable repeatability.....

If your goal is 1000y and factory ammo..... A 10TR and 168 A-Max Super performance match is a tough combo to beat!

My $.02
 
Everything in shooting is a balancing act of some sort.

Look at a 6mmBR = not much powder, very accurate even at long range and only 26 or so grains of powder. It's very efficient and long barrel life.
On the other hand you might look at 6.5-284 = lots of powder 50+ grains, very fast and flat, great for long range, not as accurate for short range, short barrel life.

Generally speaking at 1000 yards I'd go with the 6.5-284 if I'm a betting man over the 6mmBR, but that's not to say the 6mmBR could not win, because sometimes it does.

On that note about powder capacity...
The amount of powder you are burning should also be considered for barrel length.
In this example the 6mmBR could get away with a much shorter barrel than the 6.5-284 because of the amount of powder being burned and the burn rate of the powder.
 
mchaley said:
I'd like to buy a rifle that can reach out to 1000 yards. I'd like it in .308 and it'll be target only - no hunting that I'm expecting at this point in time. I'll get a decent optic and a bipod.

1000 yard shots are the goal at this point. I have essentially zero precision rifle experience.

Also, I don't reload but I'm saving brass for a rainy day.
Click to expand...

Unless you have a specific sport or accuracy goal in mind, pretty much any heavy barrel 308 factory rifle up to 26" barrel length, 12 to 10 twist will get it done.

Bed it, load for it, dial in enough elevation to make the trip. 1000yds is no big deal these days.

Now if you want to max out the 308 performance and all the accuracy you can muster, then build to FTR specs and away you go.

Worrying about 2" of barrel length with no other specific goal or running factory rifle, is not worth the time... just pick one and get out shooting.

More important will be the loading and optics to make the trip.
Jerry
 
notsorichguy said:
If 1000y is the goal, I wouldn't advise a barrel shorter than 24".....

I have a savage 10TR 24" barrel.

My go to 168SMK hand load is reliable out to 800y. At about 850 it goes transonic, and I can't seem to get reliable hits past 800....

When shooting Hornady Superperformance 168 A-max ammunition, I get 200 fps greater velocity. That gets me to 1000 y with reliable repeatability.....

If your goal is 1000y and factory ammo..... A 10TR and 168 A-Max Super performance match is a tough combo to beat!

My $.02
Click to expand...

I found that with the heavier bullets a shorter barrel in the .308 can still be a viable 1000yd gun. My 20in sps for example didn't make 900yds with the 168 smk. went to 190+ grain bullets and PING! The BC of a bullet will have a fair say in the destination it can get to. My current set up is a 22in barrel running 175gr bullets and its very potent to 1000+.
 
I was looking at a 16" barrel but from some research it seems that's too short. It'll lose a few hundred fps for no great benefit over the 20"
 
mchaley said:
I was looking at a 16" barrel but from some research it seems that's too short. It'll lose a few hundred fps for no great benefit over the 20"
Click to expand...

Too short is dependant on what you're going for. A <500yd gun... 16 with be alright on paper and steel. I'm looking in to what I'm doing next for a project and might swing a 16un stick bolt gun. Ballistically, a fair chunk of .308 loads will be close to 500 and then everything goes to hell.
If your hunting then the extra 150-200 fps or what ever your load produces will be beneficial.
 
glockgrouptherapy said:
I found that with the heavier bullets a shorter barrel in the .308 can still be a viable 1000yd gun. My 20in sps for example didn't make 900yds with the 168 smk. went to 190+ grain bullets and PING! The BC of a bullet will have a fair say in the destination it can get to. My current set up is a 22in barrel running 175gr bullets and its very potent to 1000+.
Click to expand...

This!

20" 10TR with 178 A-Max gets there reliably... a bit of a lob shot, but it hits!

168's are my go-to though as I typically shoot under 600 as those spots are a lot easier to get to on an early morning time crunch.

I had a 26" and 24" and hardly noticed the difference. The 20" is great for packing on a dirtbike in a sling, and easy to carry so it now doubles as my hunting rifle. I personally won't ever go less than 20". I think under that is where velocity really starts to drop off.

Here is a good read:
http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/
 
I see above that a bunch of guys are "encouraging" the short barrel route.
If you are a hunter or plinker I agree. It makes the rifle handy.
It might even be nice for 100 yard bench rest competition.
For short range shooting, it's fine.

However you want to shoot 1000 yards with a 308 and you don't reload. If you want to shoot "well" at 1000 yards this is so cost prohibitive that you wont be shooting much. Good ammo is very expensive - see Federal Gold Medal Match = minimum $40 per box of 20. I hope you are wealthy or you don't want to shoot much.

BTW The term "well" used above is a relative term. You will not be shooting well with any store bought load at 1000 yards relative to guys who do it all the time.

Ask yourself this... Do you want to shoot accurately at 1000 yards or do you just want to shoot at stuff at 1000 yards.
Guys who shoot in competition at 1000 yards blow through 1000 rounds in a year for fun. That's $2,000 bucks for Federal Match Ammo. (which they will not be using BTW)
Barrels are viewed as a consumable item that rarely lasts 3 years and quite often less than one.
Good shooters buy barrels 3 at a time, so if these guys are your peers, good luck with a 20 inch barrel, cause they'll have 30s or longer. An experienced shooter does not need to ask why.

They wont laugh at you... to you face at least, but they will not take you seriously on an F Class track.

Oh and trust me on this...
You would not surprise anyone on the upside at 1000 yards in an F Class match.
In fact, you will find they are well justified when their shoulders sink when they find out you are squadded with them.
I can hear it now... "Target 27 check for a hit"

I've seen these 20 inch barrel fans show up at the range every now and then. They're all turkeyed up and confident when the get there. The gear is always pristine like it just came out of the box. By the end of the day they leave with their tail between their legs... hat in hand.


mchaley said:
I'd like to buy a rifle that can reach out to 1000 yards. I'd like it in .308 and it'll be target only - no hunting that I'm expecting at this point in time. I'll get a decent optic and a bipod.

1000 yard shots are the goal at this point. I have essentially zero precision rifle experience.

Also, I don't reload but I'm saving brass for a rainy day.
Click to expand...
 
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308 is very capable at 1000yds. Look up Palma shooting which limits the bullet weight to 155 as well as DCRA rules. FTR class allows heavy bullets. I have shot mainly TR for over forty years and wacking it at 1000 can be pretty simple. You will need to reload and if you have any Federal brass that you have saved......well sell it for scrap. Buy Lapua brass and Sierra, Lapua or Berger bullets, Federal primers and Varget. Seat your bullets into the lands and if you unload and they stick in the throat be prepared so you don't dump powder in the action and have a rod or drop rod to get the bullet out of the throat. You will need 46+ grains of Varget.

See, it's simple if you know what to do. I know what to do. If you can find someone with a lot of experience you will be miles ahead. Just do what he tells and figure out why later. Don't worry about all the little details just go out and shoot. Actually shooting is far more important than surfing the web about shooting.

I see you are in ON/QC. Is that anywhere close to Ottawa?
 
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