barrel length? to cut or not to cut

6.5x55swm

6.5x55swm

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
103   0   0
Hey fellas, I have a 308 mauser that is pretty heavy and I was wondering if I cut the barrel to lighten it up, would that affect the performance of the bullet? It has a 24" barrel now and I was thinking of cutting it to 19" and maybe replace the stock. I'm just looking for your 2 cents
 
you can save more weight by replacing the stock than cutting the barrel. lightweight rings and a compact scope can save several oz too. removing open sites can save a couple oz. there are lighter rifles avalable that maybe more cost effective than trying to lighten an existing rifle. ruger ultalight, rem mountain rifle or model 7. older winchester compact all likley cheaper options depending how much you want to reduce your mauser.
 
It's just an old Santa Barbara mauser 98, It has weaver rings and bases and a 3x9x40 3200elite scope with a sporter barrel, hinge floorplate, if i had it cut to 19" what would be the range for this rifle?
 
My very strong reccommendation for you, is not to cut the barrel.
My reason is for noise from the shorter barrel.
If you doubt this noise factor, just look up the thread from a coule weeks ago about so many of us who have ringing ears, an see what they say about short barrels and if they had things to do over again.
The old adage, "You can't unring the bell," was never more true than when talking about ringing in the ears.
My opinion is the same as many other experienced rifle shooters. The very minimum length for a 30-06 class barrel should be 22 inches and I prefer 24.
I once had the 18.5 inch Remington 600 in 308 and I sold it, because I would never have fired it, even once, in hunting without ear protection.
 
IMO the extra noise is overrated. I've shot a 21.5" 7RM alongside 24" 7RM's, 24" .300 Weatherby, 22" .30-06's, .280's, .270's, .25-06's, .308's, etc. I can't say that there was a noticeable difference in muzzle blast between any of 'em, excepting the .300 (a bit noisier than the rest).

If a shorter barrel turns your crank, I'd chop to 21" on that .308 and call it a day, assuming proper balance.
 
Id say leave it at 24 inches.
A bit of weight up front means a lot for off hand shooting, never mind the increased speed of the 308 in 24'' is almost equal to a 30-06 in a 20 inch barrel.
Just my opinion.:cool:
 
Hey boys, new to this "threading" but I have an old VZ24 Mauser that I put a synthetic stock on, cut the barrel to 19", have a 3X9 on it and it shoots 1" groups all day out to 250yds. Noise is a factor all right, but only to the guys around you. At the range you'll have ear protection and when you've got a buck or bull in the sights, you won't hear the shot! You will, as one contributor stated, lose about 25fps/inch, but the animal that you hit won't know how fast the bullet was going..
 
Gotta go with H4831 on this one. I too had an 18 inch barrel on my .308 and it was way too much muzzle blast for me. Much more than my 24 inch 30-06.

Lots of myths floating around in this thread. How is it that any of you know that you will lose 25 fps for each inch of barrel you cut? Perhaps you should refer to Phil Sharpe's experiment where he cut a 30/06 barrel off an inch at a time from 30 down to 12 inches. At each length he fired several rounds of several different loads and recorded the results. The velocity actually increased as the barrel was shortened (between certain lengths) for some loads, other times it stayed the same or lost some or lots of velocity. 1500 rounds were fired through this rifle during this test.

The rule derived from all this experimenting? You can NOT tell what will happen when you shorten a barrel. Common sense would say it should always lose some velocity when you cut the barrel off, but the truth is, that is not so.
 
Personally I find short barrelled rifles (under 22") to be a specialty affair, and I would not reccomend cutting a 24" bbl. I'm not a gunsmith, but I'm guessing you may save, like four ounces of weight if you cut 5" off the bbl, plus you'll have to pay to get it done, plus you'll lose an honest 100 fps or more in velocity. In my opinion, totally not worth it. Other weight saving ideas like Chappy posted will likely help more, and cost less and be reversable.
 
I said to expect about 20-25fps loss. I didn't say that it would be exactly that. It can certainly vary, that's for sure, but 25fps is a good average.

Here's some data from Charlie Sisk:

"For a long time I have wondered about how barrel length
affected velocity. I had always been told you need a certain
length barrel for certain calibers. I have read when folks
compared one gun to another with different lengths but I
always thought that was not an apples to apples comparision.
So I did a few test myself.
All these were Shilen barrels. I used the same brass through
out the whole test. All weighed to with 1 grain. Bullets
were tested on the Juenke machine. Powder charges were
weighed to .1 grain. The same rest, chronograph, Redding
press, primers all from the same lot, bullets for the same
box, same lathe, same crowning tool, same cutoff tool, and
each rifle done from start to finish on the same day.
Ambient temperature was the same because I shoot from inside
the shop. I held the rifle the same way on the rest every
time. I shot ten rounds first to break in the barrel. Then
cleaned with Sweets and fired one fouling shot. Then shot
five rounds and took the average. I used a midrange load
fron the Nosler book, not too hot but certainly not a
reduced load. Here is what I got."

22-250 Hodgdon 380 34 grains Federal GM210M Remington brass
55 grain Ballistic Tip
27 inches 3469 fps
26 3451
25 3425
24 3407
56 fps from highest to lowest

270 Winchester Hodgdon 4350 54 grains Federal GM210M
Winchester brass 130 grain Sierra
27 inches 3115 fps
26 3093
25 3071
24 3054
23 3035
22 3027
21 3001
114 fps from highest to lowest

300 Winchester mag Federal GM215M Winchester brass 74 grains
of Reloder 22 180 grain Partition
27 inches 3055 fps
26 3031
25 3024
24 3003
23 2984
22 2960
95 fps from highest to lowest

340 Weatherby Federal GM215M 250 grain Sierra
81 grains Reloder 22 Wby brass
27 inches 2837 fps
26 2817
25 2809
24 2791
23 2777
22 2755
21 2731
106 fps from highest to lowest

I think I will do a little more thinking before I recommend
a barrel length in the future. What do you folks think ?
Charlie


Here is the info about the 338 Win and the 257 Roberts.
338 Win mag
Winchester brass
Federal GM215M primers
Reloder 19....73 grains
250 grain Partitions
27 inches.....2806 fps
26 inches.....2787 fps
25 inches.....2761 fps
24 inches.....2743 fps
23 inches.....2716 fps
22 inches.....2697 fps
21 inches.....2676 fps
20 inches.....2656 fps
150 fps from 27 inches to 21 inches

257 Roberts
Federal GM210M primers
Remington brass
H-4350....45 grains
120 grain Partitions
27 inches.....2860 fps
26 inches.....2834 fps
26 inches.....2815 fps
25 inches.....2815 fps
24 inches.....2798 fps
23 inches.....2775 fps
22 inches.....2760 fps
21 inches.....2739 fps
20 inches.....2717 fps
143 fps from 27 inches to 20 inches
I want to test this on the next 450 Marlin I build and on a
222 Remington. If I get the same results with those, in my
mind the test is over. I think this will be enough data to
support the findings. Are there any folks out there who have
a degree in this sort of thing ? Maybe explain how many data
points would be needed to be able to say this would work
with the majority of calibers ? Someone with experience in
statistical(spell check) quality control ?
Charlie

A few weeks ago I done some testing with shortening barrels
with various calibers. I just finished this test with a 300
Ultra.
These loads were EXTREMELY HOT !!!!!!!!!
I will not post the grains here because on the third loading
the primer would fall out of the case . I never load this
hot , only this time for the test. I used Remington brass,
Federal GM215M primers, 220 grain round nose bullets. I used
the same procedures as the last test.
length.... H-4895 .....H-870
.....27 .....2740 .....3107 FPS
.....26 .....2709 .....3088
.....25 .....2685 .....3062
.....24 .....2663 .....3046
.....23 .....2636 .....3018
.....22 .....2612 .....2997
H-4895 lost 128 fps
H-870 lost 110 fps"
 
I've got a smith cut a few barrels down from 28" and 26" to 23-24". Didn't know about losing velocity, but I noticed the difference in muzzle blast even then. Northman's right about the weight, you won't lose much weight on a sporter barrel by cutting it. I did it because I hate clinging the crown against something.

It's actually rumored that you would shave more weight off by fluting, than trimming. Oh, and you can skeleton-ize your bolt handle, which might also be more effective than a barrel trim.
 
Last edited:
My 308 Spanish Calvary Mauser has 17" barrel, I would sell it if I had not bought all the 308 reloading stuff. It is so loud at a range. One time I forgot to wear ear protection, my ears were ringing a few minutes.

I would trade it with longer barrel one with a heart beat
 
ht tp://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=580&

Mike Bellm specializes in Thompsom Center. Here is an article from his sight about Thompson barrels.



This test should be a real eye opener demonstrating that longer is NOT better!
For years I have preached that extra velocity only plows a deeper furrow in the dirt when you cannot place a shot at the longer ranges you supposedly buy longer barrels for!

The following is a controlled test performed by my long time friend and associate David White.

The bottom line is that the 28" "Pro Hunter" barrels are an example of not only bad science, but preying on the gullibility of the shooting public and a classic case of "lures to catch fishermen."


T/C Pro Hunter test:

What does a fluted barrel look like when cut and crowned? Here 'tis.
Distinctive & looks good.
(photo not copied over)

A couple weeks ago, I performed a single test of 5 different T/C Pro Hunter rifles that literally cut their group size in half. Before I tell you what I did, here is a list of the guns/calibers used in this seemingly simple test...

All guns had the 28" fluted Pro Hunter barrel...

All guns had Mike Bellms oversize hinge pin, heavy duty locking bolt spring and 51 lb. hammer spring...

All guns had trigger jobs with the triggers being set from 2 1/2 to 3 lbs...

All guns were shooting factory ammo...

All guns were checked before testing to make sure all mounts were tight...

Here is a list of each caliber used in the test, along with the ammo and group size before/after. I will also point out that there were 2 3-shot groups fired from the bench at 100 yards before the test and 2 3-shot groups fired after the test with the average group size listed for a ruler reading of group size measured center to center...

1) 22-250 / 55 gr. Federal Premium, before - 1 3/4" / AFTER - 3/4"...

2) 25/06 / 117 gr. Hornady Spire Point, before - 2" / AFTER - 1"...

3) 7mm Rem. Mag. / 140 gr. Nosler Partition, before - 2 1/2" / AFTER - 7/8"...

4) 308 / 150 gr. Remington Core-Lokt, before - 1 1/2" / AFTER - 3/4"...

5) 300 Win. Mag. / 180 gr. Ballistic Silver Tip, before - 2" / AFTER - 1"...




Okay, what was the ONLY thing done to these guns to cut their group size in half?

I cut 5" off the barrel and recrowned the muzzle!
Well, that may actually be two things but, it stands to reason that if you cut a barrel back, it automatically gets recrowned...


So why did these guns start shooting more like what they were supposed to with a 23" barrel instead of a 28" barrel?
Excessive "whip" and "vibration" as well as a total change in "harmonics"...

Here is a simple test that you can do and one that I have shown many customers. Remove your barrel from the frame and put the barrel lug in a vice and lock it down good and tight. Put a lead pencil in the muzzle end of the barrel. The wood is soft and will NOT damage the rifling or crown. Make sure the fit is good and tight. Now take a piece of paper and anchor it in front of the barrel and to where it comes in contact with the pencil. Now, with just your thumb and index finger, see just how much you can "flex" the barrel. You can very easily move the barrel 1/2" in all directions and depending on the pressure applied, it is easy to make a circle over 1" in diameter just from the barrel having so much give to it...

I have put these barrels in a lathe and run the lathe at 1,000 rpm and have shown customers how easy these barrels flex and bend with just finger tip pressure. What do you think these same overly long barrels do when a round is fired down the bore? They flex pretty much the same way but, too fast for the eye to see it. A shorter barrel though, will still flex but, to a lesser degree...

These Encore barrels also have what is referred to as a "step taper" and this too is a big cause of barrel flex. This is why that, when I build a barrel by barrel stubbing, I only use barrels that have a "straight taper" as this is what can be referred to as a self supporting structure. It does NOT whip around or flex like what the step tapered barrels do and with the vibrations lessened and harmonics dampened, accuracy potential of the barrel goes way up...

Will cutting 5" off of every barrel automatically make your barrel a better shooter? I cannot say 100% that it will but, I have yet to see one that it did not help at least to a certain degree and some more than others...

Let me also point out that something else that was noticed was "loose" spots in the bore. With all 5 of the rifles tested, when running a jag with a tight fitting patch down the bore, there was at least one if not two loose spots in the bore, with the first one usually at the 23 to 24" mark and then the secone one at around 27". I cannot say for sure but, I believe this is why these barrels shot much better because of the elemination of these loose spots. This is something that you cannot "fix" in these long barrels and the only way to deal with it is to live with it being like it is or cut it off, recrown and go from there...

Velocity loss from going from a 28" barrel down to 23"? I did get to shoot the 25-06 and 308 over the chronograph and total velocity loss for both was less than 60 fps.. I was expecting more but, and this is only my opinion, I feel the oversize bore closer to the muzzle end of the barrel was the culprit. If the bore was uniform from end to end or the muzzle end of the bore had a slight constriction to it, I would have expected a greater velocity loss. The 25-06 really suprised me as this cartridge performs admirably in a long barrel and shows it's true velocity potential. Not so in the last couple of Encore barrels I tested...

It's things like this that show the p-poor quality and design standards of T/C. It's no wonder Mike Bellm and I have so much gray hair....

DAVID WHITE
Click to expand...
 
6.5x55swm said:
Hey fellas, I have a 308 mauser that is pretty heavy and I was wondering if I cut the barrel to lighten it up, would that affect the performance of the bullet? It has a 24" barrel now and I was thinking of cutting it to 19" and maybe replace the stock. I'm just looking for your 2 cents
Click to expand...
Sell the gun and take the money as well as what you would have spent on the bbl job and new stock and buy a Marlin X7. You won't be disappointed.
 
The idea of selling it did cross my mind, but this rifle was my grandfathers and I'm the only one left in the family that hunts. I think I will just leave the way it is for know.
Thanks
 
The other thing to consider is that once your barrel is cut, the bore may not be in the centre of the muzzle anymore. I've seen this happen before and it looks like crap. I would sell the rifle and go get yourself an off the shelf hunting rifle like a Ruger Compact or Remington Model 7 and go shoot some moose and deer.
 
The bore can be in the centre at the muzzle and at the chamber but not in the middle of the barrel. Seen it with my own eyes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom