Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
7mm.
The 6.5-284 has been successful despite its short comings.
Jerry
The 6.5-284 has been successful despite its short comings.
Jerry
Barrel life 6.5/284 vs. 270 Wn
- Thread starter Leakingaz
- Start date
Why does everyone seem to think the .308 is a short range cartridge? I have very inexperienced shooting friends who refer to the .308 win as a "bush gun". That drives me nuts.
Because bullets fired from a 308 Win. are incapable of going past 800 yards due to the ballisti-shield.
xring_assassin
Regular
- Location
- Rocky Mountain House, Alberta
LOL @ invisible ballisti-shield....awesome.
I too am planning a 223rem with 90gr VLD experiment...hopefully that works out for me also - many guys have done it already so I suspect it will pan out just fine.
For PROVEN long range goodness though - as has been mentioned - 308 is pretty much the belly button f-class chambering - everyone's done it - because it works, I own one - barrel is normally off though as I am enjoying the next chambering which is a 260 rem ackley improved - and that thing is ridiculously fun to shoot, low recoil and those bullets FLY out to 1km easily. My next choice personally was 7mm rem mag - I like that if I am loading "plinking" rounds I don't need nearly as high pressure to get a good seal at the neck as my buddies shooting that thick a$$ WSM brass require, WSM in my experience needs to be ran damn hot ALL the time to run well.
I've simply never even considered a 270 cal just because the bullet selection for it is a bit lacking....it's one of my favorite deer/elk guns though. I would LOVE to see a 270cal 164/166-ish grain bullet hit the market...THEN I would LOVE to take it for a whirl - mostly because it'd be different - even though it would essentially be what I consider "reinventing the wheel". It was when the 260AI barrel came home Jerry told me where to start, what powder to use etc - and I had that thing up and shooting in so few rounds that I was giggling like a little girl. I wasted precious little barrel life because someone had done it before me - with 270 and some new heavy bullet - that wouldn't be the case at all...
Barrel life? I just want to shoot - when the accuracy goes south I know that Jerry (MysticPlayer) has some superb suppliers at his fingertips for my next barrel
I too am planning a 223rem with 90gr VLD experiment...hopefully that works out for me also - many guys have done it already so I suspect it will pan out just fine.
For PROVEN long range goodness though - as has been mentioned - 308 is pretty much the belly button f-class chambering - everyone's done it - because it works, I own one - barrel is normally off though as I am enjoying the next chambering which is a 260 rem ackley improved - and that thing is ridiculously fun to shoot, low recoil and those bullets FLY out to 1km easily. My next choice personally was 7mm rem mag - I like that if I am loading "plinking" rounds I don't need nearly as high pressure to get a good seal at the neck as my buddies shooting that thick a$$ WSM brass require, WSM in my experience needs to be ran damn hot ALL the time to run well.
I've simply never even considered a 270 cal just because the bullet selection for it is a bit lacking....it's one of my favorite deer/elk guns though. I would LOVE to see a 270cal 164/166-ish grain bullet hit the market...THEN I would LOVE to take it for a whirl - mostly because it'd be different - even though it would essentially be what I consider "reinventing the wheel". It was when the 260AI barrel came home Jerry told me where to start, what powder to use etc - and I had that thing up and shooting in so few rounds that I was giggling like a little girl. I wasted precious little barrel life because someone had done it before me - with 270 and some new heavy bullet - that wouldn't be the case at all...
Barrel life? I just want to shoot - when the accuracy goes south I know that Jerry (MysticPlayer) has some superb suppliers at his fingertips for my next barrel
I have shot 308 and 223 groups on the same target at 1000 yards. (155 gr Sierra and 80 gr Sierra). 308 group was very slightly wider.
I have competed with 308 back to 1200 yards. A Sierra 155, 175 or 190 works fine. the newer VLD offerings would be even better.
match the twist to the bullet. At long range you do not want the bullet to be over stabalized. The 1:14 is fine for 155. The 1:13 handles the 175.
I am guessing the VLDs need more, but have not gone there.
If a bullet is over stabalized it acts like a gyro and stays pointed up as it arcs over and down to the target. This presents the side to the air and it loses velocity more quickly. A high BC does no good if the bullet is going sideways. The egg shaped holes are often misinterpreted as a need for more twist - not less.
I have competed with 308 back to 1200 yards. A Sierra 155, 175 or 190 works fine. the newer VLD offerings would be even better.
match the twist to the bullet. At long range you do not want the bullet to be over stabalized. The 1:14 is fine for 155. The 1:13 handles the 175.
I am guessing the VLDs need more, but have not gone there.
If a bullet is over stabalized it acts like a gyro and stays pointed up as it arcs over and down to the target. This presents the side to the air and it loses velocity more quickly. A high BC does no good if the bullet is going sideways. The egg shaped holes are often misinterpreted as a need for more twist - not less.
There is a sport in the UK called "Match Rifle" that is shot with 308 rifles exclusively. It is shot at distances of up to 1200 METERS! It is often shot "Creedmore" style, which is withyour feet towards the target, and stabilizing the gun with your foot. I $hit thee not.
The 308 cartridge, with the right load and bullet is more than capable of being accurate beyond 1000 yards!!!!!!! Guys that say otherwise are clearly not long distance competitive shooters.
If you look in the precision rifle forum, you will note that Matrix Bullets of BC, has done exactly that. 165 and 175 ultra low-drag 270/6.8mm bullets.
They will require a tight twist (1:8)
This is the [problem with coming out with a new bullet like that, particularly in Canada. The hardware has to be re-designed because 277 cal has always been regarded as just a hunting calibre. It has HUGE potential and fills a very big void between 264 and 284 calibres
The 308 cartridge, with the right load and bullet is more than capable of being accurate beyond 1000 yards!!!!!!! Guys that say otherwise are clearly not long distance competitive shooters.
xring assasin said:
If you look in the precision rifle forum, you will note that Matrix Bullets of BC, has done exactly that. 165 and 175 ultra low-drag 270/6.8mm bullets.
They will require a tight twist (1:8)
This is the [problem with coming out with a new bullet like that, particularly in Canada. The hardware has to be re-designed because 277 cal has always been regarded as just a hunting calibre. It has HUGE potential and fills a very big void between 264 and 284 calibres
Case size is essentially the same, and the 270 has a bigger bore. So the 270 barrel will last longer. Assuming 50 grains of powder in each, the 6.5x284 should be good for about 1500 rounds, while the 270 a little more at 1800. Estimates are based on the formula at this link:
http://yarchive.net/gun/barrel/barrel_life.html
funkyfrosty
Member
- Location
- Southern Ontario
Ian, please do not post any more pics of guys lying on their backs shooting rifles with a towel draped over their leg.
People are gonna think all us Brits are retarded.
Thats cause we are Warren
Either the original 7mm or necked up to 30 cal. - dan
There is a sport in the UK called "Match Rifle" that is shot with 308 rifles exclusively. It is shot at distances of up to 1200 METERS! It is often shot "Creedmore" style, which is withyour feet towards the target, and stabilizing the gun with your foot. I $hit thee not.
The 308 cartridge, with the right load and bullet is more than capable of being accurate beyond 1000 yards!!!!!!! Guys that say otherwise are clearly not long distance competitive shooters.
If you look in the precision rifle forum, you will note that Matrix Bullets of BC, has done exactly that. 165 and 175 ultra low-drag 270/6.8mm bullets.
They will require a tight twist (1:8)
This is the [problem with coming out with a new bullet like that, particularly in Canada. The hardware has to be re-designed because 277 cal has always been regarded as just a hunting calibre. It has HUGE potential and fills a very big void between 264 and 284 calibres
Ian,
I shoot a custom Rem in an AICS with a 22" Rock Creek barrel and also a AI AE MK11. I dont reload and have only shot Fed Gold Medal, 168 gr out of my rifles. Looking to compete in F/TR I realize that the 168 gr Sierra Match King has it's shortcomings at longer ranges. Based on your experience, I have none with regarding to F Class can you off some advice with respect to bullet,type, weight, powder etc. I realize to be half ass competitive reloading is a must. My Rock Creek barrel has a 1 in 11.25" twist. The AI which only has a 20" barrel has a 1 in 12" and probably won,t use due to the short barrel. That may be an option as well but my knowledge of F Class is nil but I love shooting, do it as a job and have competed with success in Sniper type Tactical competitions. I hope to make it to Hometead in July.
Try one of the Scenar 154 gr bullets in your rifle, see what the LR grouping is like. they're pretty slippery for their weight. - dan
Dan is right. try the 154 scenar, 155 SMK (#2156) or Berger 155.5 grain "fullbore" or "Palma" bullets in your rifle and I suggest Varget as a terrific go-to powder that works in all temperatures. You should be able to achieve velocities of somewhere around 2900 in that barrel; the length is not a big issue. At 2900 fps (an easy velocity to achieve with these bullets) you will be supersonic at 1000 yards, in fact, although it will be a grunt, you will be transonic at 1200 yards!
It is pretty cool that you are thinking about cross-discipline shooting; your rifle will make a great F-Class (FTR) rifle
The other good thing is the 308 is an easy cartridge to load and make work; if you are not currently reloading, you picked a good way to get started.
It is pretty cool that you are thinking about cross-discipline shooting; your rifle will make a great F-Class (FTR) rifle
The other good thing is the 308 is an easy cartridge to load and make work; if you are not currently reloading, you picked a good way to get started.
- Location
- Dah Soo,ON
Does anyone know of a supplier stocking .308 cal 155 "Palma" matchkings?
Sorry for derailing the thread.
Sorry for derailing the thread.
Dan and Ian,
Thx for your input. I have always wanted to reload and this pretty much forces me to. I have been always interested in F Class. Shooting for me is a passion and I know there are some pretty talented shooters in F Class and it would be narrow minded on my part to think I couldn't learn a ton about shooting from these guys and I also meet a bunch of good people every shoot I go to.
