Barrel thread function question

bushplane

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Hi,
I'm new to barrel installation and have a thread function question. I have read and seen in videos where threads are "trued". I'm a little confused. It seems to me that if the threads are round and have the proper thread pitch diameter that the shoulder of the reciever and barrel shank will control squareness of the barrel to the bore. Is the reason you true the threads squarness of the barrel to receiver, or for concentric of the barrel to the bolt? And if it is a concentric its issue, why to people chase the threads with a tap that wants to follow the existing threads, instead of re-cut them with a single point threader that would actually make the threads consentric?

Thanks for you knowledge,

Duncan
 
The threads are produced at the factory with a tap and are often out of line with the center of the action and may be crooked as well. A piloted tap will correct this to a large degree ( I believe Guntech does this) as will single pointing the threads. The result will an action where the action, bolt, chamber and bore will all be in line maximizing the chance for an accurate rifle assuming of course the barrel is threaded and chambered correctly. Once this is done factory barrels can no longer be used as a custom diameter barrel tenon needs to be cut for action.
 
The threads are produced at the factory with a tap and are often out of line with the center of the action and may be crooked as well. A piloted tap will correct this to a large degree ( I believe Guntech does this) as will single pointing the threads. The result will an action where the action, bolt, chamber and bore will all be in line maximizing the chance for an accurate rifle assuming of course the barrel is threaded and chambered correctly. Once this is done factory barrels can no longer be used as a custom diameter barrel tenon needs to be cut for action.

Where on earth did you come up with this one????

Bushplane, this guy is either pulling your leg or has absolutely no idea of what he is typing about and just making it up from some very rudimentary shop practice skills he picked up in junior high school.

Just ten years ago, many receivers and barrel tenons were cut on a lathe and chambered on a lathe. This usually took at least three separate set ups and operations. Someplace along the way, the separate set ups may have been less than perfect. This was usually the cause of off true threading and facing.

These days, where everything is computerized and as much as possible is turned out on CNC machinery, non concentric actions/barrels are almost a thing of the past. A skilled gunsmith is pretty hard pressed to better an off the shelf production rifle built on one of the new fangled, computer directed machines. Most of these rifles will shoot factory ammo into sub one inch groups consistently. Especially if it is equipped with good parallax free glass and the shooter knows their stuff behind the trigger.

A good gunsmith, will have a special mandrel that has been threaded for the type of receiver he is truing. Each type, needs a different mandrel.

See if you can Google John Hinnant's book of rebarreling. There is a complete shop essay on which jigs, mandrels and other tools that are necessary to properly true up an action and how to check a barrel for being threaded in a concentric manner to the bore/chamber/tenon face.

Since the very first firearm was produced, where the barrel was attached to a receiver, lathes have been used to do the work. I won't say it can't be done by hand for the plain simple reason that original threads were often cut with files. I have also seen some incredibly handy and skilled/patient people do things I wouldn't have believed possible.

Personally, even though I am very good with hand tools, I wouldn't attempt it.

I have seen some very decent chambers cut by hand with pull through reamers and even with speed wrenches. I have never attempted to do a complete from scratch job my self. I have finished off pre chambered barrels by hand, with a speed wrench but that was only a few thousandths of an inch and I sweated profusely every time. You need to exercise extreme caution to do it right.

My lathes will not run slow enough IMHO to thread barrel tenons. I have a small motor, attached to a gear box that I can bolt onto the base frame my lathe sits on. I also have a corresponding sheave attached to the back of my four jaw chuck so that I can drive the lathe with this system. It's awkward but it works well and turns the lathe around 20 rpm. It doesn't make for deep cuts but that's OK. Time isn't an issue when you're retired.

If you're really into changing out your own barrels on a regular basis, may I suggest purchasing a Savage??? Fugly I know but they are good rifles and shoot well. The barrels are locked in place with a universal lock nut that allows the headspace to be adjusted without needing a lathe. You will need a special wrench for the nut and a proper barrel vise to hold it securely while you loosen off the nut.

I can't make it much simpler than this. To explain it all, would take up way to much space and time. Now, Google or your favorite search engine are your friend.
 
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No, just no. The ONLY way to properly chase a thread is by single point cutting it on a lathe. A tap will always want to follow the existing threads. Do it right, do it once.

I disagree. A tap by itself will follow the existing threads but a piloted tap does not. I have tested run out before and after using a piloted tap and straight bushings in the action. I switched from single point cutting action threads to using the piloted tap because the end result was the same with a lot less labour and a lot less cost to my customer.

The bushings I use are straight not tapered. I have an assortment of them in 1/2 thou graduations. You insert one in the front of the action and one in the rear of the action, tap them tightly in place. The piloted tap goes through those bushings. It is a tight fit and the tap is very sharp.
 
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No, just no. The ONLY way to properly chase a thread is by single point cutting it on a lathe. A tap will always want to follow the existing threads. Do it right, do it once.
Here's a site where they are being demonstrated , they are too expensive for one setup but if your doing many than its less expensive than a lathe http://rifleshooter.com/2013/02/blueprinting-a-remington-700/ , Both Pacific Tool and Gauge ans Manson remeres sell these.
 
I disagree. A tap by itself will follow the existing threads but a piloted tap does not. I have tested run out before and after using a piloted tap and straight bushings in the action. I switched from single point cutting action threads to using the piloted tap because the end result was the same with a lot less labour and a lot less cost to my customer.

The bushings I use are straight not tapered. I have an assortment of them in 1/2 thou graduations. You insert one in the front of the action and one in the rear of the action, tap them tightly in place. The piloted tap goes through those bushings. It is a tight fit and the tap is very sharp.

Here's a site where they are being demonstrated , they are too expensive for one setup but if your doing many than its less expensive than a lathe http://rifleshooter.com/2013/02/blueprinting-a-remington-700/ , Both Pacific Tool and Gauge ans Manson remeres sell these.

I hate to admit it, but I know you're both right. I've just seen too many dimwits wreck stuff with improperly used taps that I cringe when people try and use them without proper tools or experience. I must say though, the article posted shows some very nice results.
 
I have to apologize for my comments. That is the first time I have heard of such a device being used on receivers. The video bears out your claims. A piloted tap would be OK for a production shop but prohibitively expensive for a home shop.
 
Thank you all for your input. I could not see how a tap could do it, but you learn something new every day! That piloted thing looks like it works very well. I'll be doing it in the lathe cause that's the tool I have, but if you did a bunch of one tyle of action to do that might be the way to go.

Duncan
 
As mentioned by Bearhunter, Hinnant's book " The Complete Illustrated Guide to Precision Rifle Barrel Fitting" is a great guide to start with and includes details one way of truing an action using the Rem 700 as an example. If you live near me I'd be happy to lend it to you.
 
As mentioned by Bearhunter, Hinnant's book " The Complete Illustrated Guide to Precision Rifle Barrel Fitting" is a great guide to start with and includes details one way of truing an action using the Rem 700 as an example. If you live near me I'd be happy to lend it to you.

Thank you for your offer! I have that very book on order from brownells right now.
 
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