Bashing the belt

My reloads headspace on the shoulder, of course. But it does seem to me that factory ammo seems to headspace on the belt-at least in my stock Remmy 700 chamber. I sometimes cant resist paying 26 bucks a box at Walmart for win Super X just to have some fun and get the brass. (My wife's employee discount. .. They REALLY stretch on the first firing. ..gotta be losing case life there.... I like the idea of a .30-375 Ruger...
 
csquared76 said:
My reloads headspace on the shoulder, of course. But it does seem to me that factory ammo seems to headspace on the belt-at least in my stock Remmy 700 chamber. I sometimes cant resist paying 26 bucks a box at Walmart for win Super X just to have some fun and get the brass. (My wife's employee discount. .. They REALLY stretch on the first firing. ..gotta be losing case life there.... I like the idea of a .30-375 Ruger...
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There already has been lots of wildcating done with the 375 Ruger case of course. If I was in the market for some sort of"wildcat" I'd definitively look at the 375 Ruger case to base it on. Beltless, great balance of case capacity without being a giant powder burner and would do everything it is asked of. But if I wanted a .308 or 7mm magnum, I'd still go with one of the established cartridges, as they will do everything you need to do. I'm not allergic to belts though. :)
 
guntech said:
Not in the world I live in... Hand load each cartridge to accepted pressures ... = a big difference. But you can down load the 300 Mag to 30-06 levels.
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And here is your problem. load the 06 to the same pressures as the magnums SAAMI specs in a modern rifle.
 
snoopycda said:
And here is your problem. load the 06 to the same pressures as the magnums SAAMI specs in a modern rifle.
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No matter how you juggle figures, a substantial gap exists in velocities between the '06 and the 300 Win Mag.
I have 3 - 30-06 rifles. I also own 2 - 308 Norma Mags and 1 - 300 Win Mag, plus a 300 WSM

With a 180 grain bullet in a 24" barrel, a good "stout" load in the 30-06 will develop around 2850 or slightly more.

The 308 Norma or the 300 Win will get you around 3150 with the same bullet....
still a 300 fps difference, and that difference is plenty to be noticeable in the field.

The 30-06 is a fine, capable chambering....but a 300 Magnum it is not!

Regards, Eagleye.
 
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Eagleye said:
No matter how you juggle figures, a substantial gap exists in velocities between the '06 and the 300 Win Mag.
I have 3 - 30-06 rifles. I also own 2 - 308 Norma Mags and 1 - 300 Win Mag, plus a 300 WSM

With a 180 grain bullet in a 24" barrel, a good "stout" load in the 30-06 will develop around 2850 or slightly more.

The 308 Norma or the 300 Win will get you around 3150 with the same bullet....
still a 300 fps difference, and that difference is plenty to be noticeable in the field.

The 30-06 is a fine, capable chambering....but a 300 Magnum it is not!

Regards, Eagleye.
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This.

Whether going from a 30-06 to a .300 winmag is "worth it" for hunting purposes is a whole other discussion, but a 30-06 and the .300 winmag are definitely different animals.
 
Northman999 said:
This.

Whether going from a 30-06 to a .300 winmag is "worth it" for hunting purposes is a whole other discussion, but a 30-06 and the .300 winmag are definitely different animals.
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This is what i was getting at. As Ardent pointed out to me a while ago. The deer wont notice and the ballistics are only slightly better, not enough to matter in most hunting situations. The 30-06 can be improved substantially over factory, the 300 Win less so. I was merely stating that the 30-06 has a cleaner case than the "ugly belted 300 Win" and the 06 can be loaded closer to 300 values.
Is it just me, or does everybody seem touchy these days?
 
Apart from just plain enjoying the way my .300 shoots, I have a hard time swallowing the idea that it will do anything that the ought 6 wont do in 99 percent of most hunting situations. I do like the extra few yards of mpbr, but I shot my moose last year at 70 yards...in fact, nobody in our hunting group has ever shot one over 250 yards-and we shoot 7 or 8 per year between us all... last years furthest was 227 yards-and that poor thing got hit by a .416...
Everyone is touchy. Spring Fever...
 
guntech said:
The cheapest thing to do would be turn all the belts off your brass and continue loading with your present dies... the headspace is set in the rifle from the factory - you control the amount of cartridge head clearance when you reload fired brass...
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So, if I understand this concept correctly, it would be perfectly fine for me to turn the belts off say my .350 Rem Mag cases and just keep shooting them as usual? I do not have a case micrometer for this caliber, so I really would be operating blind and trusting that the chamber was, in fact, cut by the factory to headspace the cartridge either with or without the belt (i.e. either on the belt or on the shoulder). I realize I could adjust headspace (with the die setting) for fired brass, but for new brass it would be a case of hoping there was not too much headspace to the shoulder to cause a problem with a beltless case. Not sure I'm that much of a gambler. Interesting.
 
c-fbmi said:
I have designed and built a whole series on the 8X68 case including a 7mm version, a 30 cal version and on up. My reamer is 7X68 imp 30 deg with a detachable pilot and I have neck and throaters up to 375. The case capacity is absolutely identical to the 300 WM. I hunted a bit with the 7X68 imp in Texas and was driving 160s at 3400 fps from a 25" barrel. Devastating on light game. I was going to order a 6.5X68 imp reamer but with the cost of RWS 8X68 brass compared to 300 WM brass, it's just not rational. If you really want to try one I could chamber you up one and I have 300 new RWS brass for a meager $3.00 each.
I was just recently going to build a 9.3X68 imp but my buddy was selling his Sako AV in 9.3X300 WM so I bought that instead.
The 30 deg imp case is really a great looking case, positively ###y and you can reload it with 300 WSM dies in a pinch. I just reamed my 300 WM sizer die out to a 30 deg shoulder and use them. I'm not shooting for bench accuracy but sub moa was attained with both the 7 and 30 cal. I do believe Huntington has the dimensions if not you can send them 3 fired cases and they will make you a set of custom dies, but they can't send you back your brass!!!!
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Ted - your 30 cal built on the 8x68 likely duplicated the 30 Newton - Newton made it from the 8x68S in 1912 pushing a 180 gr bullet to 3000 fps back in the day, case capacity 89.2 gr's water. The 300 WM has a case capacity of 90.36, not much to choose between them except no belt on the Newton.
 
csquared76 said:
I find the differences between people's likes refreshing. I like beltless cases, but I have never felt anything for the .270. In fact, I would not chamber ANY rifle in .270. Funny. .. preferences are seldom based on any logic.
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I hear you. My preferences are based solely on shooting the cartridges. The .270 in a sporter weight rifle is a pussy cat, and was the first cartridge I put three shots into an inch at 100 yards. I really liked the way it shot from the start, and now I found out that the 130's are good for everything including elk. The 150's only add to the SD of the bullet. I just really like the balance between shooter and power that the cartridge achieves.

The .375 H&H was also love at first plink. I was a little scared of touching off the first round, but found that the Encore didn't slap me around much at all. I've since got a bolt gun in .375 H&H and again I really like how easy it is to shoot for the power level of the cartridge.

I also like the .308 Win and .30-06. The .308 more for targets and the .30-06 for a general hunting rifle. But if choosing two cartridges for small and big, the .270 and .375 would cover the lot with panache, from coyotes and pronghorn to elk and elephants.

I'd load the .270 with 130 grain bullets, the .308 with 150 grain target ammo, the .30-06 with 180 grains and the .375 with 270 and 300 grains depending on the task.
 
Hey C2

You have a rifle you can shoot and state it is accurate and flat shooting but you don't like the appearance of the brass? I gotta call this a first world problem.

Look at things from an engineering perspective and you will see that many cars are sleek and swooshy for the wrong reasons, and you will also see that engines of all types are made to serve a purpose and look that way. Guess which one I think is a more attractive design?

meme-fwp-9.jpg
 
It sounds like you are an engineer...I'm a musician... That being said, a design element that both detracts from the esthetic enjoyment of the case AND serves no practical purpose at all, offends me on many different levels...the belt serves no purpose, and its ugly... (to me...) get rid of ot.
 
csquared76 said:
Apart from just plain enjoying the way my .300 shoots, I have a hard time swallowing the idea that it will do anything that the ought 6 wont do in 99 percent of most hunting situations. I do like the extra few yards of mpbr, but I shot my moose last year at 70 yards...in fact, nobody in our hunting group has ever shot one over 250 yards-and we shoot 7 or 8 per year between us all... last years furthest was 227 yards-and that poor thing got hit by a .416...
Everyone is touchy. Spring Fever...
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Gotcha!
 
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