Basic milsurp wood repair and tlc

[H Wally]

I'm just wondering what guys out there like to do with their milsurp wood. I'm asking as I have a ross stock in very rough shape (think almost black with age) and am wondering where the line between maintenance and bubba lies. Obviously sanding is a big no-no, as there are still markings, but right now it's so dark it could have been painted.

(Actually about as dark all over as the left hand side butt stock looks.)

Also, the hand guard has a crack in it - any suggestions on fixing? Hand guards are something that I've never really come up with a solution for. I would leave it, but with the stock in it rubs and forces the crack open. Perhaps cut, insert and glue? Just glue?

 

[Tyler]

It's a bubba stock anyway, so some light sanding won't matter. Sand around the markings if you wish to preserve them.

As for the wood, I'd recommend a good wood stripper, like 'Circa 1850'. It won't harm the grain or the patina, but it will lift out any crud that's in the wood grain. You can use acetone to clean the stock as well. After a few applications of the stripper, let it dry for at least 24 hours, and start applying BLO.

Some guys will recommend TSP salt, though I haven't used it, so I can't really say anything about it. Stay away from Easy Off oven cleaner if you can.

For small cracks, I use super glue. Make sure the label says it will glue wood before you buy it, and don't buy any 'gel' type super glue, it won't seep into the crack as well. I currently use 'LocTite' super glue from a 4ml bottle... works great. Clean the crack with some acetone and a q-tip, when it comes back clean, let it dry and apply the super glue, hold the crack shut for 5-10 minutes, and that should do. I had a long crack in a hand guard that I fixed in this way, and you can't even tell it was cracked.

Stay away from wood glue or 'Gorilla' glue... it expands, and that is the last thing you want.

 

[louthepou]

To glue the crack: West System epoxy, with no hesitation. www.westsystem.com/ I think Lee Valley stores sell that stuff. I need to sstop by to get some, the used No1 foerend for my next project has a crack too.

Lou

 

[skirsons]

The black coloration is patina/oxodization and should not be removed if possible. If the stock needs repair, that's a different story. I've had to repair patina before when a stock needed some splices (remember that P14 I bought from you with the DP brit stock that had those semi-circular holes in it?)

In that case I had to repair the patina and add it to the new wood that was spliced in. To do this I used Minwax Ebony with a final coating of Linseed oil.

If you were to de-sporterize that Ross and splice an end onto it Minwax Ebony would reproduce that patina well.

 

[tiriaq]

That is a minor crack, and should repair nicely. Don't be doing any cutting.
Your rifle is restorable, given that it has a full length barrel and a stock cut in front of the band. I would do nothing to the stock except for gentle cleaning. Strip it, do any sanding, and it will be bubba'd, beyond restoration. If the stock is restored, the new wood in the forend could be finished to blend in with the original stock. The rifle would then present well, and would not look to be worked over.
If you want to slick up a sported Ross, get one with a cut barrel, and a stock cut behind the band.
What markings are on the stock?

 

[Pblatzz]

H Wally

Two ways of thinking ( Depends on your skill level and experience), leave it or restore it.

It's a nice rifle, because you have the hand guard (a very hard part to find) you have a situation where you can clean the rifle up and replace the fore end wood. The front barrel band can be bought from Epps. You could have a good Military shooter here…

Please,…Don’t sand anything, I’ve been restoring surplus rifle for 22 years now and the worst thing to do is sand a rifle. You have very important stamping on the butt stock telling date made, model, Regt markings, years issued etc. The rifles whole history. Clean it with a mix of varsol and lacquer thinner, Wash/rub the dirt away. You can rub on some boiled linseed oil after.

The hand guard can be glued if the wood is sound and the crack is just a crack and no wood is missing. Use carpenter glue. Inject it with a syringe and then tie/clamp it until it drys (24 hrs min). wipe away any seeping glue or drips with wet cloth

There’s a lot of info, PM me if you want more we can talk.

There aren’t lot of Ross rifles left, Yours looks restorable.

Pete

 

[skirsons]

If you haven't tried it yet, you might also want to try Weld-Bond. It is a very strong glue. It comes out white like carpenter's glue but dries CLEAR.

 

[ollie]

I'm in the "just leave it" camp. You wanted a piece of history, you got a piece of history, and now you want to go and wash it off?! That crud could be dirt from Paschendale! Or the blood of the boy that carried it. Most original Rosses seem to be that color woodwise, so if originality is your goal, leave it be, stretch the wood, and stain it to match. If you MUST clean it, go with a bucket of warm soapy water, and a gentle scrub.

Good lookin Ross, BTW! Glad you finally got what you were after!

 

[junkman]

Sometimes the best thing to do is nothing.

 

[H Wally]

It's a bubba stock anyway, so some light sanding won't matter. Sand around the markings if you wish to preserve them.

As for the wood, I'd recommend a good wood stripper, like 'Circa 1850'. It won't harm the grain or the patina, but it will lift out any crud that's in the wood grain. You can use acetone to clean the stock as well. After a few applications of the stripper, let it dry for at least 24 hours, and start applying BLO.

Some guys will recommend TSP salt, though I haven't used it, so I can't really say anything about it. Stay away from Easy Off oven cleaner if you can.

For small cracks, I use super glue. Make sure the label says it will glue wood before you buy it, and don't buy any 'gel' type super glue, it won't seep into the crack as well. I currently use 'LocTite' super glue from a 4ml bottle... works great. Clean the crack with some acetone and a q-tip, when it comes back clean, let it dry and apply the super glue, hold the crack shut for 5-10 minutes, and that should do. I had a long crack in a hand guard that I fixed in this way, and you can't even tell it was cracked.

Stay away from wood glue or 'Gorilla' glue... it expands, and that is the last thing you want.

I was going to use wood glue! Thanks!

The black coloration is patina/oxodization and should not be removed if possible. If the stock needs repair, that's a different story. I've had to repair patina before when a stock needed some splices (remember that P14 I bought from you with the DP brit stock that had those semi-circular holes in it?)

In that case I had to repair the patina and add it to the new wood that was spliced in. To do this I used Minwax Ebony with a final coating of Linseed oil.

If you were to de-sporterize that Ross and splice an end onto it Minwax Ebony would reproduce that patina well.

I'll get looking for that Minwax - I had thought it would be near impossible to bring it to that colour.

H Wally

Two ways of thinking ( Depends on your skill level and experience), leave it or restore it.

It's a nice rifle, because you have the hand guard (a very hard part to find) you have a situation where you can clean the rifle up and replace the fore end wood. The front barrel band can be bought from Epps. You could have a good Military shooter here…

Please,…Don’t sand anything, I’ve been restoring surplus rifle for 22 years now and the worst thing to do is sand a rifle. You have very important stamping on the butt stock telling date made, model, Regt markings, years issued etc. The rifles whole history. Clean it with a mix of varsol and lacquer thinner, Wash/rub the dirt away. You can rub on some boiled linseed oil after.

The hand guard can be glued if the wood is sound and the crack is just a crack and no wood is missing. Use carpenter glue. Inject it with a syringe and then tie/clamp it until it drys (24 hrs min). wipe away any seeping glue or drips with wet cloth

There’s a lot of info, PM me if you want more we can talk.

There aren’t lot of Ross rifles left, Yours looks restorable.

Pete

I'm just beginning to restore it - this is the first step. Got the rest of the parts coming (but forgot to order the butt stock sling swivel ). I'll use the syringe too, I had been wondering how to get it deep in there.

If you haven't tried it yet, you might also want to try Weld-Bond. It is a very strong glue. It comes out white like carpenter's glue but dries CLEAR.

Excellent - another great tip!

I'm in the "just leave it" camp. You wanted a piece of history, you got a piece of history, and now you want to go and wash it off?! That crud could be dirt from Paschendale! Or the blood of the boy that carried it. Most original Rosses seem to be that color woodwise, so if originality is your goal, leave it be, stretch the wood, and stain it to match. If you MUST clean it, go with a bucket of warm soapy water, and a gentle scrub.

Good lookin Ross, BTW! Glad you finally got what you were after!

She's also got some glue gunk from what looks like was duct tape at some point, as well as dusty crud in places. The soapy water seems the best plan for giving it a gentle clean.

Here are the stock markings:

Looks like

III. 185
1912 (or) 1917 Ad

 

[Tyler]

That crud could be dirt from Paschendale! Or the blood of the boy that carried it.

Ha ha ha... that's rich.

Most likey it's dirt and crud from the numerous hunting trips the rifle has been on since the fore stock was cut down.

What you do to the stock will depend on what you want to do with the rifle, are you going to restore it or not?

Also keep in mind that people's definition of "bubba" varies considerably. Some guys won't even add BLO to a stock, some think a good cleaning is "bubba". Even if you restore the stock to full length, it's still just a restored "bubba" to the collectors here, so that gives you a little more freedom to work with the rifle, IMO. As long as you preserve the markings, and the end result looks good, I don't think it really matters what you do.

I'll recommend Circa 1850 a second time, as it doesn't change the patina, and it will remove any grease or crud, or duct tape gunk from the stock quite nicely.

Just keep water away from the wood.

Everyone will give different advice, you just have to decide what's best.

Good luck.

 

[H Wally]

Going to be bringing it to full length. Got all the parts etc, at least on the way. Why should I keep water off it? I was going to dampen a scouring pad to remove some of the cr*p from the surface, like the duct tape glue and other grotty stuff. Is there anything that won't pull the colouring out of the wood that would clean it a bit then?

 

[Tyler]

Why should I keep water off it?

Water may raise the grain, and then you'd have to sand it. Water and wood are not a good combination.

Is there anything that won't pull the colouring out of the wood that would clean it a bit then?

Circa 1850 with a soft bristled brush. Once you've added BLO, you won't be able to tell that it was ever there, the stock will just be cleaner. When it comes to cleaning a stock, you want a product that is designed to be used with antique wood, and there are a glut of products out there. I use the Crica 1850 stuff because it is gentle on the wood. Harsh cleaning products may strip the wood of its natural oils, this is bad. Specially formulated cleaners and strippers will not. They just take things off of the wood that aren't supposed to be there, like oil, dirt, varnish, etc.

I had a P-14 stock that was covered in varnish. Circa 1850 stripped it right off, and took some oil stains and crud out with it. The patina was untouched and the finished product looked exactly the same, sans varnish and crud.

That's just my opinion. Others will vary. Here is a link for a CMP guide to re-finishing. Your Ross isn't a Garand, but the wood is similar and there is some good advice in there.

The CMP recommends 'Minwax Antique Funiture Refinisher', I haven't used it so I can't comment fairly.

6.1 Stripping Off the Old Finish and Other Debris: Walnut and birch are easily worked with, but not cheaply and take some labor if you want a nice job without making a chemical mess of the wood. Any product or procedure that includes water is not appropriate for refinishing rifle stocks. The oven cleaner and dishwasher versions of cleaning stocks are not appropriate. Water, chemicals, and hot water are the death of wood fibers and any cartouche marks on the wood. Wood in many respects is a bundle of straws held together by glue. The active ingredient in Easy-Off Oven Cleaner (sodium hydroxide) attacks the natural wood glue (hemicellulose) holding the wood fibers together. Left on long enough, it will even attack the individual wood fibers. Even more problematic when unintended is that Easy-Off requires rinsing with water which raises the grain of the wood and requires sanding to remove the feathers raised. A dishwasher’s water and heat have the potential to swell wood fibers so much that the metal will not fit back in. Oven cleaners and dishwasher detergents chemically alter the wood fibers and remove natural oils in the wood. A lye like compound may be left in the wood to later leach out if damp and attack the metal placed against it.

Minwax Antique Furniture Refinisher, synthetic stripping pads, a stiff toothbrush, and a kitchen vegetable brush will get all the old finish off of the hand guards and off of a walnut or birch stock while putting needed natural oils into the wood and keeping the grain flat. Every bit of the stock, inside and out, should be cleaned with the Refinisher including the butt stock kit holes. It is actually good for the wood. Use something like a 3” deep 4” by 10” steel pan to catch the Refinisher that runs off so that the customer can keep applying it. It will run down the wood as the work progresses into the pan to reuse.

The directions on the can should be read carefully before use. The can clearly indicates the Refinisher must be used in a well ventilated area. The fumes should not be inhaled.

If you are really worried about using 'stripper' or 're-finisher', try some mineral spirits and a good deal of elbow grease.

 

[tiriaq]

Your rifle's serial number is 185 Ad(?), made 1917. I put a question mark beside the lower case d, because usually these are upper case letters. There may be other marks, related to the units to which the rifle was issued. Rosses are sometimes among the very best rifles from the standpoint of determining the actual history of the rifle. One of mine is marked CEF over 15, CEF over 19, and is engraved DA170 on the receiver. 15th Bn. CEF was the 48th Highlanders; they were in the thick of the fighting during Second Ypres, where they were gassed and badly mauled. The Bn. was involved in the contiued fighting in the Salient through May. They exchanged their Rosses for SMLEs on the 15th of June, 1915. So, this rifle was undoubtedly present during the heavy fighting which occurred in April and May. 19th Bn. - Lincoln and Welland - arrived in France in December 1915 with the Second Division. After the 19th exchanged their Rosses in 1916, this one went to the Royal Navy, HMS Canada. This battleship was at Jutland in the summer of 1916. In 1920, HMS Canada went to Chile as Almirante Latorre, and this Ross was aboard. That's when the DA 170 was applied. Another of my Mk. IIIs is stamped CEF 16, The Canadian Scottish. They too were at Second Ypres, made a night attack at Kitchener's Wood.
Properly restored, the stock stretch will not be apparent. Mk. III Rosses in issue condition are not common, and while a restored rifle may not be quite as desirable as an intact specimen, it would still be appreciated.
Incidentally, before doing the repair, check what kind of wood in the stock. Birch was sometimes used.

 

[rgg_7]

Richard.....you always amaze me with the research and historic recant. This rifle is woth a restroation. DO NOT SCRUBB IT DOWN WITH WATER. It is best cleaned with a soft brush and lacquer thinner with the metal removed. Once cleaned you can get a better picture of the grain flow and figure in the wood. This is definately walnut. When I do jobs of this type I look for an old stock and fashion the pieces I need from the donour piece. You should be able to extend this to full length, repair the handguard and refinish with an oil finish. You got a very good piece...better than average and may want to hire someone to do the work if your talents are not up to it.

 

[H Wally]

I was just going to ask what the varieties of wood were. I suspected walnut, but it's also coated pretty thickly in dirt. I just picked up some circa 1850 furniture stripper and some weld-bond for the hand guard. I'm going to hold off on picking up the stain until I can get some walnut to test on, and go to the finishing store downtown to get their opinion (want to do this right!).

 

[skirsons]

A lot of wood and metal products are just scams.. like Brasso for brass which contains a short term shining agent and a long-term tarnishing agent so you need to keep applying it. A lot of wood products are garbage too.

Beware of any wood product that says it nourishes or feeds the wood. Wood is dead - it doesnt need any nourishment or feeding. I don't have any experience with Circa 1850 products but it sure is for sale all over the place. It's nice to see some of the members of this board recommend it because now I'm more likely to try it.

 

[tiriaq]

Disassemble the rifle so that you can see the wood that has been hidden for 91 years. You will be able to get a better idea of species and original colour. If the wood used for the stretch starts out at least similar in shade, it will be easier to stain it to match.

 

[skirsons]

Disassemble the rifle so that you can see the wood that has been hidden for 91 years. You will be able to get a better idea of species and original colour. If the wood used for the stretch starts out at least similar in shade, it will be easier to stain it to match.

True and while your at it, give it some linseed oil on the inside too... it's probably dryer than a nun's..... humor.

 

[H Wally]

Progress!

Well - got the stock stripped down this afternoon.

First off, for anyone using this stuff, don't use the yellow kitchen sink gloves for hand protection. It the circa 1850 to my hands and started to burn. Combine that with that it gets really slippery and you have a pretty sucky situation. Bare hands interestingly enough, doesn't seem to cause any problems.

Anyways, it cleaned up quite well as you'll see in the pics, plus, I found some more stamping on the stock!!!

Here you can see how nicely it lightened up, the forend where the bands will be still has the original colouration. Also, looks like there's some kind of deep dye on the butt, but that's ok, it adds character:

Here's the first markings now that they've been cleaned up. Now what I thought was " Ad " now looks like " 1 d " or something of that matter. Also, a faint rondel or circle within a circle appeared to the left of the markings:

Here are the new markings that showed up. From left to right, 7 41, Z, two indistinguishable markings that don't really show up, and finally, a faint star just behind the trigger guard.