Battle of Stalingrad

Another food for thought. If there germans decided to build Panzer Mark IV instead Tigers, Panthers etc etc. Mass produce them in large quantities instead more expensive bigger tanks, maybe the history would have ended differenty.
Plus Hitler ingnoring his generals and commanding his armies from 1000 miles away locked in his bunker.
 
Not that I support Nazi's but Hitler failed because he did not allow a degree of freedom to his generals and because he did not allow a negative thought to be considered. The Krauts would have likely held out for another 5 years or more should they have not gone for the Ruskie Cup...

And sorry for the comment on Stanleys Grad.... :)
 
Just be happy Hitler was a irrational decision maker. If they'd stayed focused and finished of England, well within there grasp before barbarossa, they would have taken russia with all of europe's economic and productive power, and the states wouldn't have been involved. But we can play the what if game all day,.....still fun though:dancingbanana:
 
Just be happy Hitler was a irrational decision maker. If they'd stayed focused and finished of England, well within there grasp before barbarossa, they would have taken russia with all of europe's economic and productive power, and the states wouldn't have been involved. But we can play the what if game all day,.....still fun though
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I dont even know how possible Sealion was. I mean, the Brits had air superiority by '41, so how the hell were the Germans going to mount an amphibious assault without any air cover?
 
if the germans had attacked the british air bases for another month, then they would have gained air superiority. "Fortunately" at this point they went for London instead.
 
I have read that something like 2/3rds of Hitlers Army was fighting the Russians...history might have been a bit different in England if this had not been the case.
Not bloody likely!
 
Also british intellagence operations kept almost 400,000 greman soldiers, airman and sailors tied up in Norway. It was called "Operation fortude - North"

About 13 divisions stayed there in anticaption of a invasion that never came.
 
f_soldaten04 said:
I dont even know how possible Sealion was. I mean, the Brits had air superiority by '41, so how the hell were the Germans going to mount an amphibious assault without any air cover?
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Only becuase the germans switched the emphasis to the eastern front. Drop tanks for the 109's where starting to come on line, they had the planes, the pilots and the production capacity to overwhem the British Isles if intelligently applied. The Brits only won the battle because the germans quit targeting the Radar sights and airfields. Another two weeks of that and the RAF wouldn't have been able to put planes where they needed to.

As to the russians tying up so many german divisions, this is true, but after dunkirk, it wouldn't have taken many as the brits had nothing much heavier than small arms on hand, most of the heavy equipment and artillery stayed on the beaches.
 
huntinchef said:
I have read that something like 2/3rds of Hitlers Army was fighting the Russians...history might have been a bit different in England if this had not been the case.
Not bloody likely!
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? Pretty bloodly likely I think, eh whot? Nothing england had on hand in 1940/1 was going to stop the german forces on land, they where an army of recruits fighting a professional army, it took till 43 till they started to get proficent.
 
Cocked&Locked said:
? Pretty bloodly likely I think, eh whot? Nothing england had on hand in 1940/1 was going to stop the german forces on land, they where an army of recruits fighting a professional army, it took till 43 till they started to get proficent.
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A couple of points here. The British still had her navy and if the germans had invaded the navy would have been in a position to cut the germans off from suplies etc. Remember we are talking 1940 and how close run the 1944 return invasion was! None of the LST and LSI and LCI's were around in 1940.

It was a very risky proposition for the Germans, and Hitler knew it.
 
huntinchef said:
I have read that something like 2/3rds of Hitlers Army was fighting the Russians...history might have been a bit different in England if this had not been the case.
Not bloody likely!
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Posting something like this is pointless, you express an opinion but give absolutly nothing to back it up. Might as well have not posted anything.
 
Sgt Striker said:
An excellent book, I read it several years ago.... and that's the main reason I didn't like the movie....

All Quite on the Russian Front is a very good book as well. Written by a German, and I think he lives in London Ont. now.
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I thought All Stille im Westen was about WW1.

There is another book?
 
Gibbs505 said:
A couple of points here. The British still had her navy and if the germans had invaded the navy would have been in a position to cut the germans off from suplies etc.

It was a very risky proposition for the Germans, and Hitler knew it.
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Don't forget the German U boats & not RN ruled the sea back in 1940. The British were just being routed at Dunkirk, her army was in a disorganized state, outgunned and the momentum belongs to the Germans. If Hitler went after the RAF airfields, fuel dumps and industrial complex instead of London, the outcome could have been totally different.
 
Kampfhamster said:
if the germans had attacked the british air bases for another month, then they would have gained air superiority. "Fortunately" at this point they went for London instead.
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You can thank a lost He111 crew for the decision to attack London. They jettisoned their bombs over London and headed back. When the British replied by bombing Berlin, it so enraged hitler, that he orderted a switch in tactics.

Still, I doubt if Sealion would have been successful.
 
Oh by the way, when they asked a german general after the war how bad the russian snipers were, he asked what sniping? When the premier russian sniper was invited to Hythe and given a No4Mk1T to try out, the consensus was reached that he didn't know what the hell he was doing. If "Enemy at the Gates" is an example, just how many folks on the forum couldn't do the same thing with iron sights at the ranges depicted?

Like everything else in the "Great Patriotic War" the russians were a bit imaginative in praising their snipers.
 
You can thank a lost He111 crew for the decision to attack London. They jettisoned their bombs over London and headed back. When the British replied by bombing Berlin, it so enraged hitler, that he orderted a switch in tactics.

Still, I doubt if Sealion would have been successful.
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yeah, very true. strange how little happenings such as this can save a country.
 
John Sukey said:
Oh by the way, when they asked a german general after the war how bad the russian snipers were, he asked what sniping? When the premier russian sniper was invited to Hythe and given a No4Mk1T to try out, the consensus was reached that he didn't know what the hell he was doing. If "Enemy at the Gates" is an example, just how many folks on the forum couldn't do the same thing with iron sights at the ranges depicted?

Like everything else in the "Great Patriotic War" the russians were a bit imaginative in praising their snipers.
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If you look into the old German records mentioned in several books on this subject you will find that the Germans were very worried about the Russian snipers, and that the Russian snipers were exacting a heavy toll on morale and warm bodies.

I'm sure as in any way there was propaganda BS on both sides, but I bet there are some Old Germans still around that would have something else to say about it.

BTW the Russians where equipped with Mosins, not Enfields...so no wonder this sniper you are talking about looked like he knew nothing...both Rifles handle very diffrently.
 
sf said:
Don't forget the German U boats & not RN ruled the sea back in 1940. The British were just being routed at Dunkirk, her army was in a disorganized state, outgunned and the momentum belongs to the Germans. If Hitler went after the RAF airfields, fuel dumps and industrial complex instead of London, the outcome could have been totally different.
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There where very few U boats in 1940 barely a dozen or less at sea at the time! and, they never really 'ruled' the sea. They were a real menace later, particurally in 42 and early 43. While momentum did belong to the germans, they lost it in the weeks after the fall of France.

If Hitler had done as you said, then yes, it could have been very dfferent.

The last thing to remember is however, the British where reading the Germans signals. That was a tremendious advantage!
 
f_soldaten04 said:
Very interesting, too bad I missed it :( . But I think in the end, the quality of German soldiers was far above that of the Russians, who were often "hazed" at Stalingrad, with little previous experience. Essentially it came down to numbers or men, tanks, and aeroplanes. I would also recommend "The Forgotten Soldier." Its not about Stalingrad, but a true account of a soldier in the Deutchland Division.
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Stalin is quoted as saying "Quantity has a quality all its own". And he was probably right.
 
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