Battlefields of Kaprolat and Hasselmann

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snowhunter

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Please google the "battlefields of Kaprolat and Hasselmann", in which the norwegian SS soldiers and russian army fought a battle. This sight was revisited by norwegian and russian historians/archaeologist in 2003 and 2005.

Graphic photos of some of the remains of the 100 norwegian and some russian soldiers, who had for the last 60 years, been left where they died. Bunkers, barbed wire and personal belonging also found.

The Norwegian Government refused to recieve these norwegian SS soldiers remains, and eventually provided some money for proper burial in Russia.
 
Those pictures are pretty neat.

It is a shame though that the Norwegian government were such asshats about bringing their citizens home. That sentiment really bugs m. Every time I am in Germany, I loathe the fact that they are taught to be ashamed of their past. Every nation has reason to be ashamed of parts of their past but it seems that the German people are made to suffer still in order to deflect guilt from other nations.
 
Recce21 said:
Those pictures are pretty neat.

It is a shame though that the Norwegian government were such asshats about bringing their citizens home. That sentiment really bugs m. Every time I am in Germany, I loathe the fact that they are taught to be ashamed of their past. Every nation has reason to be ashamed of parts of their past but it seems that the German people are made to suffer still in order to deflect guilt from other nations.
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Joining the armed forces of an invading enemy constitutes treason. If it were Canadian SS volunteers on that battlefield I'd be quite happy to see them left to rot.
 
Thank you for posting this, very interesting and informative. With all the tragedy and hardships of war on all sides, stories such as this are not uncommon. In particular I think of the Vlasov Army and the Soviet sponsored NKFD. Both situations where soldiers served their opponents, most likely under extreme duress I would assume. Is it true all members of SS Nord were volunteers?
I too agree and understand the treason aspect of this discussion. Still, as more research is made available to us, I personally find these stories and their underlying situations fascinating.

It was made quite clear by the Canadian Army that if my Dad was captured, and being born in Czechoslovakia, he would have been executed by the Germans. The same was told to my Uncle who flew with the RAF.
 
I wish I could cite where I read it, but it mentioned that the Finnish SS units were made to wear conspicuous SS insignia, so as to make them more easily identifiable to the Russians as fascist troops, and therefore less likley to surrender.

5012d1226672015-finnish-soldiers-finnish-soldiers.jpg
 
My god, the helmets and everything are right where they dropped after being killed.

It is, at the same time, eerie and unsettling that even after 60 years, they remain forgotten and unburied.
 
Norway was invaded and occupied by the Nazis for 5 years. It was not a happy experience for the Norwegians so their reluctance to repatriate the remains of these traitors is understandable. It is surprising that the Russians also left their dead to rot in the field.

There is a place for basic humanity beyond the politics. The last act that can be done for a soldier or any human being, no matter who they are, is to render them a proper burial. I once experienced a nasty incident in south Lebanon where the Israelis had shot up some PLO fighters and left the bodies to rot in the sun for several days. When I saw it there was a pack of wild dogs feeding on the remains. I told an IDF officer that nobody deserved that end and that human decency required the bodies to be recovered and buried.

This is an interesting historical thread. Hopefully the Ernst Zundel types won't try to use it to glorify the Nazis or attempt to justify the criminal war of aggression which was started by them.
 
"...a shame though that the Norwegian government..." They stopped being Norwegian citizens when they joined the SS. Supposedly, 11,000 Norwegians volunteered.
 
I find myself with mixed feelings about this one.

Yes, it's sad to see citizens of any country shunned by their government in their final rest.

However, as has been mentioned, these individuals volunteered - VOLUNTEERED - to fight with an invading force against their native land. So in a sense I feel, while it's sad to see, they deserve the shun.

Imagine how we would feel if there were a Taliban invasion of Canada (remote though the possibility seems). Perhaps, more realistically, if there were a nuclear device detonated on Canadian or American soil by the Taliban/Al-Qaeda. Imagine if your closest buddies jumped up and said "I long to fight WITH our new Muslim overlords, not AGAINST them!" and began fighting actively against our society and, by extension, against YOU.

Would YOU want them to be afforded a proper burial with full honors by your country? I know where I'd stand on the issue. There'd be some fat, happy crows and 'yotes in my neck of the woods.

I still don't feel good about what's happened there, because I'm sure these were brave men who fought valiantly and died as warriors... and yes, there IS a place for basic humanity beyond just the politics of the issue. However, I can definitely see both sides of the coin and I can't really argue with anyone who feels either way about it. Just because you give someone what they deserve doesn't make you right, and just because you don't doesn't make you wrong.

-M
 
Doc M said:
I find myself with mixed feelings about this one.

Yes, it's sad to see citizens of any country shunned by their government in their final rest.

However, as has been mentioned, these individuals volunteered - VOLUNTEERED - to fight with an invading force against their native land. So in a sense I feel, while it's sad to see, they deserve the shun.

Imagine how we would feel if there were a Taliban invasion of Canada (remote though the possibility seems). Perhaps, more realistically, if there were a nuclear device detonated on Canadian or American soil by the Taliban/Al-Qaeda. Imagine if your closest buddies jumped up and said "I long to fight WITH our new Muslim overlords, not AGAINST them!" and began fighting actively against our society and, by extension, against YOU.

Would YOU want them to be afforded a proper burial with full honors by your country? I know where I'd stand on the issue. There'd be some fat, happy crows and 'yotes in my neck of the woods.

I still don't feel good about what's happened there, because I'm sure these were brave men who fought valiantly and died as warriors... and yes, there IS a place for basic humanity beyond just the politics of the issue. However, I can definitely see both sides of the coin and I can't really argue with anyone who feels either way about it. Just because you give someone what they deserve doesn't make you right, and just because you don't doesn't make you wrong.

-M
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Very well said.
 
"There is a place for basic humanity beyond the politics."

I'm sure Mussolini and his mistress probably would have agreed with you right before they got hung up by their toes. Or perhaps the Charlemagne Division men General Leclerc stood up against the wall after the fall of Berlin.

Easy for us to argue the point around. We never had Nazis on our doorsteps.

But IMHO they gave up their right to protection when they VOLUNTEERED to fight with the Enemy. These aren't the bodies of Norwegian soldiers - these are the bodies of Nazi soldiers. Maybe the Germans will take them.
 
You guys are letting your emotions take over here. The dead couldn't care less where they lie. As far as these troops being traitors, who knows the circumstances behind their axis service? The Finns had close ties with Germany for many years, so did the Norwegians. Hitler, quite blatantly, reneged on all agreements to take over Norway.
I can readily understand the hatred of a citizenry for occupying troops but what about the fellows already in Norwegian military service? The French, Dutch, Denmark and several other occupied countries had SS "volunteer" units. The Germans even utilised captured Russians as troops against the Russians. I'm at a bit of a loss here.

A battlefield is a fine and honorable grave site. After 60+ years, I rather doubt there are a lot of people left that really care other than as a curiosity, who they were. Let them lie in peace. Their remains are just that, hollow bones that are giving life back to the earth around them, soon to disappear completely. They lie in a fitting spot.

We are way to shocked by death here. I don't really know why. I can understand people wanting to be respectful of the dead but for the most part they are just that. Respect for the dead is a gesture to ease the aching souls of the living and we do so with funerals and grave sites. We do this in many ways, solemn, weepy ceremonies to raucous drunken wakes. Many people find both of these practices offensive. I say it doesn't matter to the dead. The essence that made them viable, living creatures was wrested from their bodies a long time ago and has moved on.

The history and the placement of the bodies suggests they were never moved and the artifacts left behind show they weren't vandalised. I didn't see any weapons in the pics, so I assume they were policed up by one side or the other. Circumstances of the time dictated where they lie and all in all, it's none to shabby IMHO.
 
there is some reasons to id the bodies if possible

10"s of thousands of men are still "missing" would you not wanna know what happened to grandpa whom-ever??


My grandfather lost brothers on the russian front he figured they were dead but wanted to know when and where. as once the fronts were falling troops were scattered all over records of deaths were not kept or were lost or destroyed


In 1954 of of my grandfathers "dead" brothers came home he had been captured by the russians in late 1944 early 1945 and held till then
 
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