- Location
- Peawanuck, ON
BCL 102 troubleshooting
- Thread starter RoughneckRico
- Start date
Considering how many people have had problems and how few are actually circulating (anyone got a number? 300-400? What gen or revision are we up to now?) I would expect a better percentage of properly built rifles. There were only 77 rifles in the first generation batch and they hadn't even released the second batch yet and many people had already come to the conclusion that you were buying a $1750 receiver set and that pretty much everything else was going in the scrap bin. Then they changed it in Gen 2 and then there was parts compatibility issues that weren't there in the Gen 1. Why? What manufacturer changes the design every batch? Now what? Gen 3 or 4 and still only on the market for what? A year?
These guys claim to be aerospace, would you trust something they built to take you off the surface of the planet and return you safely?
And I think you're wrong about the auto manufacturer, If these were built by an auto manufacturer they would have recalled the entire first batch. I also don't see polls on Chevy or Subaru forums asking how many have had the same issues over and over.
Maybe if they focused on making a product that worked then hired someone besides some homeless people they found outside the soup kitchen to run the quality control department we wouldn't have threads like this, but instead they make cosmetic changes and swap in parts that are not compatible with the previous generation so people can't swap out the garbage factory parts as easily.
Changing the company name does not change the product and NEA has had QC control issues since the beginning. And even though it's probably not quite as bad as I make it sound you definitely don't hear about every second or third Daniel Defense rifle that is sold having so many problems.
You can try to say it's not that bad, I get it, you bought one and don't like to hear people bash your new rifle but think of all the others that just like you bought a new rifle just to end up sending it back sometimes more than once at their expense, or saying F it and just dropping another $500 on their new rifle to fix it themselves. Any company that sends out that many problem items then makes the consumer pay to ship it back and forth is a company I can not support. It would be different if it was just one in a hundred and for the most part people were very happy with what they bought but that isn't the case here.
Like I said earlier, I know they are capable of making a good product, it's just too bad they aren't more consistent.
More evidence that many people feel the same as I do about BCL is obvious by how many of them are for sale on the EE, and that the retailers are now advertising they have them in stock. All of a sudden they go from pre-order and wait, to rifles on the shelf with no customer wanting it. Now that there is another affordable option people are moving on hoping for a better product. Well, I've owned Stag products before and I have a feeling we will be reading alot of happy stories instead of trouble with my gun stories.
Just curious, how are you measuring these half moa groups at 60 yards? With a 308 all the bullets would have to make a single ragged hole at that distance. Plus I doubt very much you are even getting 1 moa groups from the factory barrel.
Here is a real world report by an unbiased shooter who can probably shoot better than 99% of the guys on this forum
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...uning-for-BCL-102-2-at-250yds-100yds-and-DONE
He couldn't get 1 MOA with handloads or FGMM from the 102 so I doubt you're just pounding off half MOA groups while struggling with rifle failures.
Sorry, didn't want this to turn into an NEA/BCL bash any more than you did, we've beaten that to death.
I just wish people would do some more research before buying a rifle known to be problematic then coming on here asking for help. Want help? Send it back to BCL, demand that they pay the shipping both directions and tell them that it will continue to be sent back until they get their chit together and stop letting junk slip out the door disguised as customers rifles. You paid full retail price for a new rifle, it should work and until they get it right shipping it back and forth is their responsibility. If they had built it right to begin with they wouldn't be having these problems and neither would their customers. It should never cost the customer more than the retail price plus shipping to their home if needed to get what they paid for which is a fully functioning reliable rifle, if they can't deliver that then they should stop selling to retail.
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Hee hee hee
I’m not going to say anything this time....
I need to stop looking in these 102 threads. They're all the same and people keep buying them. Just not much new on here to read today so...
1700 is more than I expected, that's good news, they really ramped up production. Still a lot of problem rifles out there but at least it's not sounding like 50/50 anymore
I've had great luck with Stag in the past and they have a great track record for consistent quality. They may not be KAC level but the Stag stuff I've owned in the past was well finished and the lower had one of the best factory triggers I've used in an AR.
I think there will be a lot of happy customers. If I didn't already have a Modern Hunter I'd be buying the Stag 10 receiver set for a build. I think the results with the Stag receivers will be completely dependent on the components people choose, some will be heavy, some will be light, some will be sub moa and some will be 4 moa but at least the receivers should never be the problem in the build. I like it when a company delivers what they advertise and it actually works.
Wow, thanks for all the productive info CR5. So to recap, don’t buy one, if you do demand they pay shipping for warranty, and don’t come on here, the troubleshooting thread, asking for help with troubleshooting. Sweet!
Lol, sorry but what productive info is there to give in these threads? The only course of action that makes sense to me when a person buys a new rifle and it doesn't work is to send it back for repair or replacement. This goes for any product, if you buy a blender and it doesn't work do you try to fix it yourself or do you return it and get a replacement?
I just think that when you buy a new gun it should work and if it doesn't you shouldn't have to pay a bunch of money to get it fixed. Maybe the retailers should just exchange every rifle that has any issues within the first 100 rounds and then they can deal with the manufacturer and pay to ship it back and forth till it's fixed right.
If problems with the rifles were a rare occurrence then this wouldn't be an issue but there are so many of these threads describing problems with the 102 it's not even funny any more.
If people want to continue to buy a rifle that is known to have a high failure rate then that's their choice but so many seem to be so surprised that their rifle doesn't work properly then come on here asking what to do. Well, just like a new car that has a problem, you go to the dealer and ask for it to be repaired under warranty, you shouldn't need to come on a forum to figure that out.
If the rifle had 500+ rounds through it and all of a sudden stops working then I'm more than happy to help a guy troubleshoot his rifle regardless of the brand, but when it's a new rifle fresh out of the box my advice is to not mess with it and send it back.
Making them fix their screw ups is the only way they will realize that it would be cheaper to built it right the first time instead of having to provide warranty service and deal with the negative publicity of having another of their rifles being talked about negatively on the forums. It's called being accountable and it's something that this new modern world seems to have forgotten about. If we hold them accountable to deliver what they advertised then the quality and consistency will go up or they will go out of business. That's how it should work. Just like when the rest of us go to work, if we don't do our job correctly we get fired after one or two warnings. Well BCL/NEA has years of history of exactly what we're seeing with the 102. A nice rifle that unfortunately is being manufactured by a company that doesn't seem to give a rats ass about their Canadian civilian customers.
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Poll currently shows about 60%.
Way, way too high for an almost 2K rifle purchased brand new....
There’s only 35 votes.
You're probably going to get most votes from the angry owners, many that are happy with the product will ignore these threads to avoid having to defend the rifle they bought.
Most will avoid it because they simply don't care. If you aren't having problems then you're likely to just move on. There's no fanboyism going on with this brand. No need to defend anything. Most of us know we bought hobby grade. Which is a big difference from buying hobby grade but paying and thinking you bought high end. You don't get the same type of defence stuff going on as a result. It is what it is.
My gen 2 went through 150 rounds of 147 gr surplus no problems what so ever. Tried 168gr amax reloads that work fine in several other 308s- no go, failure to go into battery, light strikes galore and had to mortar several rounds out of the chamber. Rifling hitting the bullets and locking up
Once I got home I tried various seating depths until I could get one to chamber at 2.735 OAL- normally I load these at 2.8 which is pretty standard. Looks like the chamber leade is too short. Haven't contacted bcl yet, but hopefully they will resolve it.
Once I got home I tried various seating depths until I could get one to chamber at 2.735 OAL- normally I load these at 2.8 which is pretty standard. Looks like the chamber leade is too short. Haven't contacted bcl yet, but hopefully they will resolve it.
I think you're right about that for many of the guys but I know there are guys out there that bought these and think $1700 is a lot of money and that for that much they should be buying a top tier product. Unfortunately your hobby grade designation is very appropriate.
Hmmm, I've never used a small base die reloading for any of my semi auto's (308 or 223) and I've never had any issues in any of my rifles. I'm sure it doesn't hurt but I would refrain from small base unless the chamber is tight and it's actually needed. Might get one or two extra loads out of the brass working it a little less along the way?
edit: I should pick up a small base die for both calibers soon, was thinking about it and it's usually the necks or shoulders that fail on my brass so a small base prob wouldn't make much difference other than reducing the risk of a jam.
I recently found while loading Hornady 75gr BTHP for one of my 223 semi's (Wylde chamber) that I needed to load a couple thou shorter OAL than the Hornady manual stated to get it off the lands.
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True. $1700 is a lot of money. But.. as we both know that's the entry level for AR308. That's DPMS LR308 territory. These aren't AR15 rifles. I think the main problem is people think it's just a bigger AR15. The higher price tag, higher cost of ammo, and lack of compatibility seem to catch a lot of the new buyers off guard.
I'm actually fairly happy with how the AR10/AR308 system has taken off. When I first started shooting these rifles, we had two choices in Canada. DPMS LR308 or Armalite AR10T. That was it.
I've had it happen to me. Nothing like going to the range and having your round get jammed in or fail to load with a partial jam. Usually it's all of those reloads from the same batch. Not much fun. Another buddy also shooting AR10 rifles ran into the same issue. Small base resizing dies took care of it.
I found the problem usually shows up after or around the 3rd reload of the brass. Before that I didn't have any issues. Also I'm using RCBS dies. The buddy who also had the same issue was also using RCBS dies. Small base took care of this issue in both cases. I should also add that I've heard that other companies dies may in fact already be small base with their regular 308 dies but I can't confirm if this is correct and if so which ones.
Like you said, it just reduces jams and or fail to chamber/stuck issues. It can actually be pretty severe to the point of requiring rubber mallets etc to get your bolt open. Not much fun and more than a little embarrassing. Plus there is always a safety concern when trying to unjam a live round from your rifle.
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It doesn't matter if it works fine in a PGW or rem 700. I used my reloads in a 5R milspec and a few other rifles as well. However rounds that would chamber in the bolt action would jam in the AR10 rifles. Don't use that as your indicator.
I know you're positive it's not your reloads. Which sounds likely from what you posted that it's not. I would however recommend checking with off the shelf factory match ammo. 168 Federal Gold would be the one I would use to check. If this ammo chambers fine then it is 100 percent your reloads. If it won't chamber or is buried in the rifling/lands then it's the rifle. No need to even fire it from the description you provided. If it won't chamber properly then it's 100 percent the rifle and it has to go back to the manufacturer to be fixed.
Anyways, sounds like you know what you're doing. I'm mentioning this more for the others who are new to the AR10/AR308 and might not be as familiar with it's nuances. Stuff like this myself and a few friends already learned the hard way. Figured I'd pass it on. Likely not what's going on in your situation from what you've just posted. But worth noting for others.
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