BCRA Tactical rifle rules 2008

don't think you need to advertise in the paper for a night shoot at Volkes.
as always I can pick up and store stuff at my place, things like clay pigeons would be simple, although Longshot is closer to the manufacturer in North Van than I am.
what about having to shoot your partners gun, assuming every team has two guns that is? or possibly shifting everyone down one position, but leaving the guns? probably too hard to work out the logistics, but it'd be interesting to do.
 
Slavex said:
don't think you need to advertise in the paper for a night shoot at Volkes.
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I've got that all cleared up, we are good to go on that idea.
Slavex said:
as always I can pick up and store stuff at my place, things like clay pigeons would be simple, although Longshot is closer to the manufacturer in North Van than I am.
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Thanks brother, we will take you up on that this year for sure.
Slavex said:
what about having to shoot your partners gun, assuming every team has two guns that is? or possibly shifting everyone down one position, but leaving the guns? probably too hard to work out the logistics, but it'd be interesting to do.
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You will shoot your partners gun if yours goes down, but shooting some other teams kit, no thanks way too much liability. Look at how many of the shooters had kit problems last year that can be directly attributed to their own doing.....

We have a few really cool ideas floating about for matches, it will all be decided by early January and I will post then. One thing I can say is we will have optional stages that aren't part of any aggs,they will start after the regular shutdown time and potentially go until midnight on the Saturday. I wonder how mentally fatigued I can make you guys???:D
 
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The rules about caliber are there so this match DOESN'T turn into a big Fclass match.If you want to shoot a .243 or .260 you still can in the open class.
Sorry one gun is all your allowed for the whole match otherwise you get the golfbag effect.Th spirit of this match is to test your shooting ability over a wide range of challenges.Not to test you gun selection ability.
 
yeah I figured the "shoot other peoples guns" thing wouldn't work. Forgot about the issues we saw last time.(is skullboys gun fixed yet?)
 
Slavex said:
yeah I figured the "shoot other peoples guns" thing wouldn't work. Forgot about the issues we saw last time.(is skullboys gun fixed yet?)
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Nope, not fixed yet. Couldn't get a hold of Grens.........................Maybe if Longshot is back in town I can drop my rifle off with him.............

Swapping guns between your partner or weak side shooting sound good to me.

Sorry, but I have too much invested in my rig just to hand it over to a stranger I don't know.................

I'd like to be able to shoot different guns for the police and miltary environments.
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this isn't golf where you choose your "club" for each hole.................:rolleyes:


Also I can't see why we have be so anal about the restriction on caliber choice. A lot of tac rifle competitors in the US are using 260s and 243s.
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As said, enter the Open Class if you want to shoot those calibers............

We don't want to exclude any people/groups from participating, but then again we are not going to bend over backwards to make them happy either..............Hence the open class for the F-Class and TR-O shooters.

I don't see the our caliber restrictions any different then the TR bullet weight restriction.........................


Mike, I will try to help out as much as time allows for this years Match.

SKBY.
 
Skullboy said:
I don't see the our caliber restrictions any different then the TR bullet weight restriction.........................

SKBY.
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Actually, I don't see this as an apples-to-apples comparison, at all.

DCRA TR rules specify .308 with 155 for one simple reason: to be consistent with International Palma rules. The Brits are the prime agents behind maintaining the 155-grain rule in International Palma, anyway. This is partially (if not largely) due to the fact that they don't reload and rely upon RG loaded ammo.

U.S. Palma rules do not require 155-grain bullets, and many U.S. shooters use bullets up to 190 grains and more in their TR matches. It's only when they come up here that they have to stick to 155s. The Americans can afford to flaunt international rules at home because they like to do things their own way and they have the institutions, number of shooters and dollars at home to thumb their noses at the international establishment if they have to. In Canada, we are too closely tied to Britain to be this ballsy.

I know that there is a move in the DCRA to try to lighten the TR rules regarding trigger weight and bullet weight. Again, from what I've been led to understand, the Brits are the holdouts.

As you can see, there is no great DCRA conspiracy to exclude shooters from TR with arbitrary requirements. In order to meet international standards, our hands are tied and we are limited to 155s. Most TR shooters in Canada WANT these rules to lighten, but we can't do it if we want to shoot in internationally sanctioned matches.

The BC Precison Match, on the other hand, is not tied to international rules and politics in the same way. There is no reason why the organizers of the BC match are forced to limit the caliber, barrel length, bullet, scope or anything in this match. As others have pointed out, other precision matches allow different calibers. Therefore, the rules as set for the BC match are purely a matter of choice. The organizers of this match may have valid reasons for the choices that they've made, but the argument that it's a tit-for-tat because of the strict TR rules is just b.s., in my opinion.
 
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So I guess there is no opening up the match rules to include 300WM Sniper rigs? I like the rest of the ideas regarding the night/evening shoot. It will make things much more interesting at the range and at home. No really dear, we are shooting at night and I'm at the range.....No I'm not at the bar.....really, I'm with the guys, but not at a bar.....No, there are no girls here.....
 
Swampy said:
So I guess there is no opening up the match rules to include 300WM Sniper rigs?
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Here are the allowed calibers fo rVokes Range:

3.202 WEAPONS
Only the following weapons can be fired on this range:
a. Military Small Arms:
(I) 9mm pistol,
(2) 5.56 mm C7, C8, C9,
(3) 7.62 mm C1, C2, C3, C5, C6, and
(4) 6.5 mm sub-cal (106 RCL); and

b. Civilian Small Arms:
(I) 22-45 cal pistol/revolver,
(2) 22-30 cal rifle,
(3) 410-12gauge shotgun,
(4) black powder rifles /pistols, and
(5) crossbow.
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I have been told by several in the "know" that Vokes is not currently templated for the .300 WinMag...................I had bought a Rem700 PSS in .300 WinMag years ago to use at this match, but was told we can not shoot that cartridge unless the range gets re-certified/templated...........

I think on some of the snap shoots that the recoil of the .300 WinMag would be a handicap/hinderence................



p-17 said:
but the argument that it's a tit-for-tat because of the strict TR rules is just b.s., in my opinion.
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I my argument wasn't meant as a "tit for tat" thing......................;)

The rules for the Sniper/Precision match have been like this for quite some time, and the match is meant more as a Military/Tactical style match using equipment that the Military & L.E. agencies use.............the most common Issue Military calibers have been the 5.56 & .308Win. cartridges.

The Open class has been brought into the match to allow those who wish to use TR/TR-O/F-Class, or any other rifle that does not meet the "Tactical Rifle" requirements a chance to compete. This means no one gets excluded from the shoot.

Now how would the TR-O guys feel if I asked to have the rules for that class changed so I can shoot my "Tactical/Sniper" rig using a bipod & the heavy bullets I use.............I don't think they would be too receptive and would probably tell me to shoot F-Class.........(which I have in the past..) ;)

This is last years Equipment Rules:

1. EQUIPMENT RULES:
General:
Rifle Rests -limited to slings, bipods, rucksack, dragbag, glove or sandbag. No tripods, shooting cradles, Monopods or rear rests of any kind, other than your hand or a fist sized sandsock(Don't show up with a 10 lb sandsock, I will be bringing replacement socks for people who are pushing the envelope).
Flash suppressors - limited to AR-15 and M-14 style rifles
Muzzle brakes - limited to factory production rifles with non-removable muzzle brakes.
Slings - no limitations on type or style.

Division #1 - Tactical Rifle:
Rifles - current issue Police, Military or Military surplus type sniper rifles
Calibers - .223 / 5.56, 308 / 7.62, .303, 30-06, 7.62x54
Bolt action or Semi-Auto
Barrel length - 27 in. maximum
Optics - no restrictions
Weight - 17.5 lbs maximum***********
Rifles - must have internal or external magazine.
Minimum trigger pull - 2.5 lbs. *

Division #2 – OPEN:
Rifles - Any safe rifle and equipment not meeting Division #1 Tactical Rifle equipment rules.
Caliber – any caliber up to 8mm.Wildcat calibers allowed, Magnums not allowed due to range license restriction.

IMHO, these rules are more then fair. :D

SKBY.
 
p-17 said:
Actually, I don't see this as an apples-to-apples comparison, at all.

DCRA TR rules specify .308 with 155 for one simple reason: to be consistent with International Palma rules. The Brits are the prime agents behind maintaining the 155-grain rule in International Palma, anyway. This is partially (if not largely) due to the fact that they don't reload and rely upon RG loaded ammo.

U.S. Palma rules do not require 155-grain bullets, and many U.S. shooters use bullets up to 190 grains and more in their TR matches. It's only when they come up here that they have to stick to 155s. The Americans can afford to flaunt international rules at home because they like to do things their own way and they have the institutions, number of shooters and dollars at home to thumb their noses at the international establishment if they have to. In Canada, we are too closely tied to Britain to be this ballsy.

I know that there is a move in the DCRA to try to lighten the TR rules regarding trigger weight and bullet weight. Again, from what I've been led to understand, the Brits are the holdouts.

As you can see, there is no great DCRA conspiracy to exclude shooters from TR with arbitrary requirements. In order to meet international standards, our hands are tied and we are limited to 155s. Most TR shooters in Canada WANT these rules to lighten, but we can't do it if we want to shoot in internationally sanctioned matches.

The BC Precison Match, on the other hand, is not tied to international rules and politics in the same way. There is no reason why the organizers of the BC match are forced to limit the caliber, barrel length, bullet, scope or anything in this match. As others have pointed out, other precision matches allow different calibers. Therefore, the rules as set for the BC match are purely a matter of choice. The organizers of this match may have valid reasons for the choices that they've made, but the argument that it's a tit-for-tat because of the strict TR rules is just b.s., in my opinion.
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Sorry, I have been on holidays so I am just answering this now. Where to start?
The bullet thing, rules are rules. They have decided to go this route for a reason. The Brits use Radway Green and that handicaps them, them weight rule evens the playing field.

Nobody said there was a conspiracy afoot in TR, what we are saying is each class runs it's own rules for a reason.

I will let you in on a little insight here on the rules we run. I could change this into a run what you brung event at the drop of a hat, will I? Not a chance! The way we have these rules setup, you can take a factory heavy barrel .308 or .223 rifle, have the trigger done and bed the rifle and you can come out and be in the running to win if you can shoot under pressure. You tell me what other class you can do that in besides service rifle.

If you do not believe what I am telling you, have a look at the results at either the Snipershide cup, or Camp Perry last year. How many factory rifles? Where did they finish? How many rifles worth more than $5000. This years SHC is going to a .308 only match, why do you think that is?

Just bring what ever you have got and come out and shoot the match, then we will talk about the rules.

Oh, Skullboy.
There have been a few minor revisions to the rules, they will be out once I talk to Bill Watts a bit more. It should be early this month.
 
I am totally in favour of using rules to level the playing field. In my opinion, F-class has evolved (or devolved) into essentially a benchrest competition, and only benchrest rifles, cartridges and handload techniques are really competitive in major matches anymore. This excludes novices or people on a budget.

This is why I really hope that the so-called "Farkey" class stays solid. There has to be a way for beginning shooters, or people who don't enjoy obsessive technical stuff, to be able to compete.

As I've said before: I have a rifle that meets all the requirements of this match, and I plan to use it, without complaint.
 
p-17 said:
I am totally in favour of using rules to level the playing field. In my opinion, F-class has evolved (or devolved) into essentially a benchrest competition, and only benchrest rifles, cartridges and handload techniques are really competitive in major matches anymore. This excludes novices or people on a budget.

This is why I really hope that the so-called "Farkey" class stays solid. There has to be a way for beginning shooters, or people who don't enjoy obsessive technical stuff, to be able to compete.
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I agree with you there.........

p-17 said:
As I've said before: I have a rifle that meets all the requirements of this match, and I plan to use it, without complaint.
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When then, I expect to see your butt out on the line this year!!!!!:p :D ;)

SKBY.
 
can I wear my rubber, umm decon suit? yeah that's what it is, yeah..............
 
no, not assless. I don't know if you could assless chaps big enough to fit my ass anyhow.

(I think we've started the derailing/thread hijack even earlier this year eh?)
 
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