BD3008 vs. BD38

[Claven2]

Found some intersting pics to share.

this is the Marstar ad copy photo of the BD3008:

And here is some pics of originals:

They all seem to vary somewhat from one another. Aside from obvious differences between the loop and T stocks, there seems to be at least 2 types of cocing handle, at least two types of barrel nut with different diameters, the shape of the stamping welded to the front of the mag wells for the front ling swivel and the presence or absence of a rear sling swivel.

The SSD copy seems to incorporate the buttstock of the third real 3008 from the top, the barrel nut of the bottom weapon, the front lsing attachment stamping of the second real weapon from the top and the trigger design of the 4th real one down.

 

[Claven2]

Here's another interesting tidbit, I located the survey webpage Darren Weaver had up to solicit info when he was drafting his book on Volksgewehr rifles.

Check it out:
http://homepages.vvm.com/~histpart/mp3008.htm
Here's the drawing from the datasheet:

 

[tiriaq]

SSD obviously was prepared to become involved with metal pressing for the different 42/44 series guns. If demand warranted it, pressings could be used to fabricate the 3008, and an MP-40. The original 3008 didn't use DOM tubing, but rather wrapped sheet, like many Stens. Rather than use presses and dies to blank out the basic pieces, a computer controlled plasma cutter would be a very viable option.
I suspect that the price of the 3008 is what it is because of the production technology being used.
SSD has made the Neuminster; I wonder if they are considering a Potsdam reproduction. I am interested in the 3008, but would definitely go for a Mk. II Sten.
Not in any way to fault SSD, but I really think that it should be able to manufacture a 3008/Sten reproduction that would retail for substantially less.
The approval of the 38 and 3008 has established the legal practicality. A Sten could be made in 2 versions, restricted with original length barrel, and non-restricted with a long barrel inside a casing to simulate a IIS, SOE, etc. version. I have to believe that in lots of, say 100 units, 3008/Sten reproductions could be manufactured in this country. A Sten reproduction would be a lot easier to sell here than a 3008.
Just a week or so ago, I had the opportunity to watch a computer controlled plasma cutting rig in operation. Remarkable piece of equipment. Cut edges require only minor deburring, and the precision was impressive.

 

[koalorka]

If I had the cash I would get both, the BD38 for its ubiquity and the BD3008 for being such an obscure and little-known design. I think it's great that they even made it to Canada.

 

[Claven2]

tiriaq,

One problem is that SSD has very likely patented their semi-only design (I know I would have!). to have it fall under the same RCMP approval, you would have to copy it, presumably under license.

I doubt they will hamstring their own Canadian market by allowing inexpensive knock-offs to be produced and sold, but I stand to be corrected

 

[Claven2]

Has anyone here actually fired one of these yet?

Stenco0llector - you have pumped a bunch of rounds out of a semi-sten, correct? Can you get the thing really rocking fast - anything like an original in F/A, or does the open bolt design really slow things up in semi?

What about with the BD-38? While I've held one, I haven't fired one (yet). How fast can you snap through a string?

 

[stencollector]

The 3008 I saw had a very stenish cocking handle.

With regard to the mechanism of the 3008, I did not remove the trigger housing cover, but the mechanism I could see through the cocking slot looked identical to the normal F/A sten. The bolt has the feed lips 90 degrees from where the normal sten feed lips are, but the sear and L shaped disconnect lever both looked identical to the sten. The change lever/button was built firmly in place and in semi auto only.

As to pumping rounds out of a semi auto sten or BD3008, the limiting factor is not how fast you can pull the trigger, it is how fast the rediculous 5 round magazines are empty. It is hard to get a feel for the gun when you are constantly changing magazines. That is, of course, where the 1919A4 (and I am sure your MG34) are fun...those 250 round belts on the A4 can't be beat. But overall, yes, it was a lot of fun. You certainly had the feel of history with it...moreso than with my sterling SMG, which is also a cool gun.

I only had my semi sten to the range a couple of days for testfiring. On the first day, there were guys who kept looking over but wouldn't come over. It was like that for almost a half hour. I think they thought there was something wrong about having that gun on the range...they were interested but didn't want to get involved.

The semi sten is still tied up at the RCMP lab. They can't commit to any timeline as to how long before they will render a decision. I think they are waiting for the liberals to get back in and ban all those semi autos.

 

[Claven2]

You may well be right, which would certainly rain on my parade if I acquired one of these!

Another thought to consider... It looks to me like the BD3008 front sight is spot-welded in place, not windage adjustable like on a Sten MkII and the rear sight is also welded on.

How do you adjust for windage and elevation on the BD3008? Or am I overlooking something?

Here's a front view of the gun that shows the front sight:

 

[tiriaq]

Most?/Many/Some? Mk. II Stens have welded front sights. If the 3008 is an accurate repro, the front sight will be fixed. If those are centre punch marks, rather than tack welds, perhaps the sight could be rotated a bit for windage, and restaked. My Sten II had a dovetailed, movable sight, my III was absolutely fixed. You know, it didn't seem to be much of a problem. The 3008 sight is probably carefully aligned using a jig of some sort, but it is likely a one size fits all proposition.

 

[cantom]

You may well be right, which would certainly rain on my parade if I acquired one of these!

Another thought to consider... It looks to me like the BD3008 front sight is spot-welded in place, not windage adjustable like on a Sten MkII and the rear sight is also welded on.

How do you adjust for windage and elevation on the BD3008? Or am I overlooking something?

Here's a front view of the gun that shows the front sight:

It's an area weapon!

 

[tiriaq]

The interesting thing with Stens is that if you use them as a carbine, with the sights, either single shots or short bursts, they are usefully accurate. By the same token, you can write your initial with one using long bursts.

 

[cantom]

The interesting thing with Stens is that if you use them as a carbine, with the sights, either single shots or short bursts, they are usefully accurate. By the same token, you can write your initial with one using long bursts.

Claven- I handled the 3008 and have to say that it was very very Stenlike and certainly seemed like great quality.(I used to have a CA Sten) Owning one wouldn't offend me at all. If only there was a non-restricted long barrel version, that'd be very desirable...that idea about the fake suppressor with a 19" barrel is interesting...

 

[stencollector]

How do you adjust for windage and elevation on the BD3008? Or am I overlooking something?

For windage, lean the carbine towards the windy side. If the gun is shooting too low, raise it higher. If it is shooting too high, then lower it.

That was the beauty of the sten, the corrections (nor anything else on it) were not overly complicated. If you want complicated, maybe you had better go with that 38 contraption.

Origionally the Cdn stens had the front sight simply staked. Later, the majority seemed to have had the front sight welded into place.

 

[Claven2]

That aiming philosophy isn't particularly inspiring for a semi-auto with only 5 shots

 

[tiriaq]

I watched my friend break 3 out of 5 clay pigeons with 5 shots at 100 yards, firing prone using a log for a forearm rest with his Mk. III carbine. Can't have sights any less adjustable than those on a Mk. III Sten.
As a matter of personal preference, I appreciate adjustable sights. But this sort of carbine with fixed sights can still be worth shooting.

 

[Claven2]

Found these photos of an original BD3008 while surfing the net...
Wonder if the repro is identical?

BD3008 bolt on left, Sten MkII bolt on right:

Front sight that is staked on:

Note that the barrel is apparently PINNED ON, not held on by the threaded bbl shroud like on a Sten. Wonder how good/durable/condisive to Maintenance the pinned attachement is? Also wonder if the repros are also pinned on?

disassembled:

receiver tube:

 

[Claven2]

oops! Guess no hotlinking!

Here's the web addy though...
h t t p://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=109790&highlight=mp3008

 

[tiriaq]

I'm assuming that the barrels are pressed and pinned in place. I wouldn't worry about the durability of the installation. Pinned barrels are not uncommon, and don't seem to pose any problems.

 

[Claven2]

Perhaps, unless you wish to change the barrel Reason I'm curious is that if, for example, I buy one and McSquinty succedds in banning all restricted guns in Ontario after he wins the election tomorrow (thank for NUTHIN Mr. Religious schools J. Tory), I'd want to know I could have a longer barrel fitted and keep it.

A pinned and pressed barrel isn't readily replaced in my experience, but I stand to be corrected. I REALLY wish I could examine one of these in person before deciding to buy or not

 

[John Sukey]

Only the Mk1, Mk1* and Mk5 sten had a windage adjustable sight. And the reason the Mk2 didn't have one is the same reason you don't need a sight on a garden hose. You simply walk the rounds into the target.
Only the Mk3 sten had a rolled sheet reciever,and a pinned barrel, and there was a very good reason they stopped making the things before the end of the war. an example of production shortcuts taken a bit too far.
200,000 Mk1 and Mk1* Stens were made
1,950,000 MkII Stens were made at Fazakerley
95,000 MkII's at ROF Theale
404,383 at BSA
135,000 at Longbranch