Bear Attack in the High Arctic

I know this has been brought up before but what are the legalities about carring a shotgun with you for bear defense reasons.

I'm going up to my cottage up near Kenora this summer and usually spend quite some time in the bush.

In the fifty years my family has been going up there we never saw as many bears as we did last year.
 
I have a freind who was involved in almost the same story. Might even be the same one I never saw photos but heard the chilling tale apparently the injured fella was telling the guys that he wanted his polar bear as he was being air lifted out. his major concern was to get his bear especially now that the bear and him had this connection.
 
firstsks said:
I know this has been brought up before but what are the legalities about carring a shotgun with you for bear defense reasons.

I'm going up to my cottage up near Kenora this summer and usually spend quite some time in the bush.

In the fifty years my family has been going up there we never saw as many bears as we did last year.
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I think your first step is to approach the local authorities in your area which would be the OPP and the local CO. Explain to them your concerns and that you would be more comfortable with a firearm while in the bush, then pay close attention to how they interpret and intend to enforce the law. It may help if you can tell them that you come from a firearm and big game hunting background. If your cottage is within a provincial park it may be tougher. Chances are that they will poo-poo your concerns pointing out that in 50 years you have not had a problem, then side step the issue by lecturing you on how to safely dispose of your garbage. Should this turn out to be the case, a call to a lawyer might be in order to find out how you may proceed legally. An unwritten law around here is that it's sometimes easier to get forgiveness than permission, however it is unfortunately not adhered to equally across the country.
 
hunt365 said:
I have a freind who was involved in almost the same story. Might even be the same one I never saw photos but heard the chilling tale apparently the injured fella was telling the guys that he wanted his polar bear as he was being air lifted out. his major concern was to get his bear especially now that the bear and him had this connection.
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There was an Inuit family that was attacked by a polar bear in a similar fashion, which took place at their fishing camp - I believe near Whale Cove. Perhaps that is the story you are referring to. They had no gun in camp, and tried to fend the bear off by throwing rocks at it. I believe that incident resulted in fatalities, but fortunately Custom had a helicopter inn the area, the survivors where flown out, and the bear was subsequently killed.
 
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Ontario law is a little weird firstsks. In bc we just do - it's perfectly legal and largely to be expected.

Ontario has some 'unusual' twists. Calling the co - or better yet writing the co and faxing the letter stating that due to concerns about bears you're taking bear spray and a shotgun with you for defense and wanted to let them know would be a good idea.

If you've communicated your intent to them, and can prove it, generally that covers your butt. But perhaps some ontario folks could tell you specifically about the local laws where you're going.

And remember - slugs kill bears. :) not buckshot
 
I live and hunt in southern Ontario.
Twice in the last ten years my dad, once alone with a .22 and once with me and a cousin, while carrying two barrles of 7.5 birdshot, came between a sow blackbear and her treed cubs. Both times the sow's slood on their hind legs within 20yds and sniffed the air while her cubs squeeled. Both times the sows plodded off and we left the scene so the cubs could get down and run away.

I think in both cases, had I been him and been armed, I'd have plugged both bears if they'd come down onto all fours in my direction.
 
I saw bear spray in this thread, I know most CGNers know this already but I will beat my anti bear spray drum some more:

Bear spray is a joke. Do not think it offers any protection, I would rather have an Ax. A firearm is simply the only thing that will give you a chance in a bear attack.
 
There was an incident in the park near Pang. Chap was awakened by an awful commotion. A bear was removing his companion's tent, with his companion still in it, in his mummy bag. Got out, sprayed the bear thoroughly with his bearspray, bear left. I agree the a firearm is the bear deterrent of choice, but in this case, the spray worked. IF you have a firearm, there is no harm having the non lethal equipment along. But to have only non lethal gear, and no firearm is foolish. If you are close enough to an aggressive bear to use spray, you are WAY too close.
 
Bear spray is a joke. Do not think it offers any protection, I would rather have an Ax. A firearm is simply the only thing that will give you a chance in a bear attack.
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That's simply not true. There are hundreds of examples of both, and real world experiences blow that statement out of the water.

Bear spray is by no means a guarantee, that's definately true. But neither are guns. And in fact, most examinations of actual incidents show that for people who had spray wiht them vs people who had a gun, more people with spray were able to stop the attack.

The problem with spray is that it doesn't always stop the bear from RE-attacking. And many have found that they've sprayed a bear several times only to have it attack again 5 mins later till they run out of spray and are in deep s**t.

But to say spray isn't effective is utterly wrong. Hundreds of uses have proven that statement is utterly false.

Personally - i'd rather have both. Spray is easier to carry on your belt than a pistol, and probably more effective. But i look at it as something to use in a sudden encounter to break the attack long enough to get my gun ready and finish the fight if necessary.

Lots and lots of people have been mauled or killed after getting in a couple good hits with a large gun. A gun IS a valuable tool, but it's no guarantee either.

Interesting point - spray is more effective on grizzlies than on black bears for some reason.
 
There was a park ranger near banff B.C telling a story about bear spray and a Grizz! he hit it square in the face a good hit.
The bear just rubbed his head in the grass for a bit and kept on comeing he dealt with problem bears for 30+ years and said Bear spray is useless to most of the time.
I would think it works once in awhile but Bears are like some bad dogs and unpredictable.
I would never depend on Bear spray with Blacks or grizz,
Maby its just me but i got a gun and im gona take and use that. :)
 
As I said before, if you can carry both spray and gun, if you're caught off guard or knocked down the spray is on your hip and you can fight your way back to your gun. Your gun can also jam, short stroke or fail to feed. If you need a bear defence, carry both.

Problem with bear spray is that airlines won't let you carry it, as will a lot of small aircraft unless you have a airtight container to transport it.
 
I would think it works once in awhile but Bears are like some bad dogs and unpredictable.
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'Bout 75 percent of the cases. That's pretty good odds, and is actually slightly better than guns. Problem of course is like i said - if the bear keeps attacking you're going to run out of spray sooner or later.

Obviously the ranger survived, so it must have done SOME good :) I can certanly provide you with dozens of cases where it did work just fine.

2 years ago (3 now?) a guy hunting with a bud got charged - managed to get 2 solid hits in the chest with a 338 mag and the bear still mauled him so bad the big story was that he survived at all. If his bud hadn't been there - no chance. So guns aren't a guarantee either. They work 'sometimes' about the same as pepper spray does.

Nothing - and i do mean nothing - is a 'guarantee' on bears. Your best defense is still your head, and avoiding confrontation.

If i have a rifle or shotgun in my hand, and a bear is charging, i'm likely going to use the gun. but - you put your gun down sometimes and don't always have it in hand to use. And sometimes, you'll go places you can't carry a gun. How many of us get an animal down, and start to work with our gun 5 feet away? A bear coming out of the woods will be on you before you can get to your gun, but you might have a chance to get the pepper spray on your belt in time, and if it does nothing more than force the bear to break off for a few seconds, that buys you time to get the gun.

I like guns for bear defense, don't get me wrong. But it's irresponsible to suggest to people that pepper spray isn't effective. It is - in the majority of cases. And as an ADDITION to your arsenal (gun and brain) it's a good one - it's something light and convenient you can keep on your belt, and it's allowed places guns aren't. Nothing is a guarantee - but pepper spray USED PROPERLY is effective within it's limits, and people SHOULD consider it as part of an effective bear stratagy. That doesn't mean INSTEAD of a gun per se, but rather as part of the tools you have available.
 
BTW - just as you have to practice with your gun to be effective, people using bear spray really should practice with a can of the stuff once in a while too. There are methods that are more successful than others (holding it close to your face and 'aiming' it while spraying is NOT one of them :) )

You can also buy inert versions for practice. But every few years buy a new one and fire off the old one. Most times when it's not effective it's fired from too far a range in panic.
 
OK foxer im sure you got stats ect for pros and cons of both spray and guns but what if a person sprays the bear but it keeps comeing the time he wasted dicking around with the spray he coulda be more prepared by haveing his shotgun or rifle ready and you know 12 ga slugs slow em down if ya hit em there gona feel it! or a 45 70 + i think the spray gives alot of people false sence of protection, tho if its all they can have i guess its better than them standing there with nothing.
I wont even think of buying the stuff cause if you got it you might get that false sence of protection and put your gun down when without the spray you woulda never done that and Bingo murphys law kicks in.

If you were in an area that didnt alow guns then the spray is better than nothing. Personaly i wouldnt go to thos Parks ect in Bear country where you cant or arnt aloud to protect yourself with a firearm i dont like or trust bears period.
 
I carry both a 225 gr can of bear spray in a flap holster AND a .454 Casull in a flap holster. It gives you a lot more flexibility on how to play out an encounter.

I just fired off an expired can of bear spray at the range for practice. Even the spray just hanging in the air afterwards was trendously irritating.
 
Foxer said:
And in fact, most examinations of actual incidents show that for people who had spray wiht them vs people who had a gun, more people with spray were able to stop the attack.
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this is a misleading statistic, IMO.

the bear spray incidents are all counted, even when a summer forestry or geology student empties a can of spray at a 100 lb blackie running full tilt away from him.

in the firearm incidents, by the time lead is flying, there is a determined attack in progress, not to mention the fact that except for the odd hunter that makes it onto the cover of the Province newspaper, nobody in his right mind reports a successful bear incident that involved the bears death.

If you were able to get the numbers of bearspray incidents that actually involved an attack, I'll make bets as to which one is more reliable.
 
if a person sprays the bear but it keeps comeing the time he wasted dicking around with the spray he coulda be more prepared by haveing his shotgun or rifle ready and you know 12 ga slugs slow em down if ya hit em there gona feel it! or a 45 70
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Like i said - if you're holding a gun, go for the gun :)

But if you're gun is 5 feet away and the bear is charging, you won't make it. You might get the spray from a belt holder tho.
this is a misleading statistic, IMO.

the bear spray incidents are all counted, even when a summer forestry or geology student empties a can of spray at a 100 lb blackie running full tilt away from him.
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Up to a point perhaps. Considering the effective range of spray, i suspect in most cases the bear was well inside people's 'comfort zone' tho.

I do know what you're saying - a guy has a bear 'too close' - lets off a blast, and the noise and red cloud billowing forwards startles the bear and it runs off. Counts as 'successful defense'. Guy number two has a rifle, and yells at the bear instead, and the bear runs off. Doesn't get recorded as a 'successful gun defense'. In neither case the effectiveness of the tool was not an issue, it was more to do with the fact the bear was easily scared off (as are most).

However, several researchers have put together numbers from specific cases where they could reasonably identify it as an honest to goodness 'hostile' bear. And the numbers are still quite high.

I agree with you it would be wrong to take this as ipso facto proof bear spray is more effective than guns. For example - it might just be that a lot of the guys with guns never practiced with them, whereas bear spray is EASIER to use correctly with minimal practice. It may also be that in many cases the person was using a hunting gun not intended for bear defense, and factors such as a scope reduced it's effectiveness close in.

It might even be that different people find that one or the other is more effective for THEM - if it were possible to have 10 times to try it different ways :)

You can't take the numbers as absolute markers for effectiveness because as you say it's not apples to apples. But - there is little doubt that bear spray used properly is effective in the majority of cases, and therefore makes a good addition to your arsenal where appropriate.

I just didn't want people to read this thread and think there was no point in carrying spray - especially when a gun is either not allowed or is going to be put down a lot.

It is an effective tool when used properly. Would i rather have a big honkin' gun that i'd been practicing with? Sure. But that's not always possible.
 
As Foxer and Geologist said, carry both. Sometimes the wind will not be in your favour, also if you are with someone, give them the spray and you carry the gun. If the bear charges the sprayer sprays and the gunner aims, if the bear does not back off, kill it. If the bear runs away after being sprayed, it should avoid humans for a long time and hopefully teach it’s cubs to also.

Bear defense is a complex thing. It means keeping your camp clean, choosing your routes (if you can) making noise, avoiding a sighted bear, maybe even calling off the activity. The gun and spray are your last line of defense.
 
Foxer, are you referring to Hererro's bear spray vs bullets study?

As has been stated, there are benefits to bear spray as long as its limitations are recognized, it has been proven useful in certain circumstances. Bear spray will appeal to a lot of people who would not carry a firearm and it is also a good backup option to a long gun if you cannot carry a sidearm. It works differently than a firearm, certain people will choose the non-lethal method and certain people will choose the lethal method....but BOTH require sufficient training and knowledge of how to apply each deterrent method.

It is true that a can of bearspray will be more effective than a firearm for a person who is unskilled in using the firearm, BUT the facts show that a firearm in trained hands is more effective at ending a dangerous encounter than is bearspray.
I have also seen people who have a false sense of security with a firearm; they think that since they can hit a target at 10m they are prepared for an encounter, but have no hope in hell of being effective in a real world encounter. I have had to tell those people outright that they should not rely on their ability with the firearm to protect their life until they are more proficient.

Cheers
 
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