Bear defender 12 gauge

I was out this morning gave my 18.5" barreled O/U 12 gauge and Dlask 14" barreled Rem 870 both have improved cylinder a try at 30 yards with 2 3/4" 21 shot #4 Buck @ 1450fps.

All three barrels patterned almost exactly the same averaging 16 pellets hitting per shot all over a 2 1/2' x 2' sheet of cardboard I was hoping for patterns 1/3 this so was very disappointed.

I then set the target up at 72 yards and standing leaning on a rest I next tried 2 3/4" Score slugs the upper barrel on the O/U hit 3" high and 4" left of the 2" bull the lower barrel hit 8" high and 2" left. The Rem 870 with the Dlask 870 barrel put 3 slugs into a cloverleaf dead center but appr 2 1/2" low.

I'm trying these #4 buck loads out because I am going to start hunting coyotes in thick timber or out in the valley I live in single projectile is not allowed in the valley and a fast handling shotgun is needed in the thick bush.
 
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geologist said:
I like modified because the spread on buckshot, generally 0.5-1" per yard makes for good patterns at 5-15 yards plus there is no issue shooting slugs through it.
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That’s my experience when patterning my shotguns, mod always seems to be my best choice for shot and I get good slug accuracy as well. I have one barrel that has a full choke on it but I haven’t bothered to put any slugs through it to check it for accuracy, I’ll get around to it at some point. It’s just a fun gun I shoot grouse with when driving around logging roads.
 
geologist said:
I'd tighten down to at least Modified Camp.
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Wish I could but my barrels are all fixed chokes and I can't find a gunsmith/machinist that will install chokes even if its only for my 14" Dlask barrel.

Rem does produce a 18.5" barrel that has removable chokes but I can't find any other than on a new shotgun.
 
Camp Cook said:
Wish I could but my barrels are all fixed chokes and I can't find a gunsmith/machinist that will install chokes even if its only for my 14" Dlask barrel.

Rem does produce a 18.5" barrel that has removable chokes but I can't find any other than on a new shotgun.
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Rustywood installed Winchokes in my Norinco HP9-1 barrel and it is thinner walled than your Dlask barrel. I'd give Peter a call.
 
Big Bad said:
Since I have a feeling I might be a little quick on the trigger if a bear is coming on strong, and people with me almost certainly would be, I always load a mix of slugs and 00 Buck, starting with a slug and the next two with Buck and the rest slugs. This is not a system I've ever had a to test in real life but it makes sense to me.
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Makes perfect sense... Until you skin out a bear and find buckshot pellets under the hide in the skull area...

IMO buckshot lacks both the knock down power and penetration one would want in a life or death situation...
 
nothing but hard cast slugs in my bear defense 12 gauge pumps. And I've had to use it for the intended purpose when charged close range at night.

Only one round did the job, but if I had to use a second I can tell you there's no way I'd even consider buckshot after experiencing that situation.
 
OO Buck is .330" in diameter they weigh max 60grs each velocity is max 1500fps = no thanks for defense I load my shotguns with slugs.
 
Ok, so from my research it seems ... and reading numerous accounts ... it seems there are two approaches to kill a bear at close range with a 12ga:

1.) Option 1: A heavy buckshot load to the head and at close range.

2.) Option 2: A powerful slug to the vitals ... lungs, heart, liver ...

I guess we can all agree on the fact that buckshot to the body gives marginal penetration ....

But which of the above two options is more viable ... ?

I mean a bear hit with a slug to the vitals (lungs, heart, liver) is till capable to hurt you badly for what ... hmmmm ... 1 min ... 2 min ... 5 min ... or more??

Whereas one buckshot pellet that enters the brain or the spine ... will probably kill (incapacitate) that bear instantaneously ...

So, my question is .... who has killed a bear with buckshot ... and how did you do it?
What were you aiming at ... and from what did that bear actually die?
 
fiddler said:
We have a problem at the farm with large black bears being pushed around by much larger grizzlies. I wouldn't use anything less than a 1 oz slug with 4 more in the tube. Each to their own, but these bears are not little puppy dogs. During mating season you don't go take a sh*t without your gun.
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Ginme a break! Your knees knocking together should keep them away
 
0faustus0 said:
Ok, so from my research it seems ... and reading numerous accounts ... it seems there are two approaches to kill a bear at close range with a 12ga:

1.) Option 1: A heavy buckshot load to the head and at close range.

2.) Option 2: A powerful slug to the vitals ... lungs, heart, liver ...

I guess we can all agree on the fact that buckshot to the body gives marginal penetration ....

But which of the above two options is more viable ... ?

I mean a bear hit with a slug to the vitals (lungs, heart, liver) is till capable to hurt you badly for what ... hmmmm ... 1 min ... 2 min ... 5 min ... or more??

Whereas one buckshot pellet that enters the brain or the spine ... will probably kill (incapacitate) that bear instantaneously ...

So, my question is .... who has killed a bear with buckshot ... and how did you do it?
What were you aiming at ... and from what did that bear actually die?
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I would ask yourself what you would choose that would work in both situations, slugs are what I’d choose. Head or vitals it will work provided you use a good quality slug and you can get it on target quickly and take a shot.
 
At close and personal ranges with a bear making that first shot accurately and fast is the difference between walking away intact and being gathered up and carried in several bags from the site of the charge the best aiming system is the gold bead on the end of the shotgun barrel.
You don't have time to mess with a sighting system.
The aperture is a good hunting sight but for me not a good bear defence sight.
My shotgun has a 14" bbl and a groove rear 'sight' and a red high-viz glow sight on the front.
I can put all the Brenneke slugs in a 4" circle @ 5, 10 and 20 yds unfailingly and very fast at 20 yds.
I carry with 1 in the spout. It's that first shot that counts.
 
Butcherbill said:
I would ask yourself what you would choose that would work in both situations, slugs are what I’d choose. Head or vitals it will work provided you use a good quality slug and you can get it on target quickly and take a shot.
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Butcherbill, in my mind there is only one situation where I would pull the trigger on a bear and without having a tag ... and that would be a bear charging me ... meaning that bear is coming right at me ... within 20 meters ... and it will not give me a broadside shot ...

So, the question I am wondering about is ... am I loading buckshot for a shot to the head .... or am I loading slugs ...??

Within 20 meters ... and a bear charging me ... I might manage to put 2 slugs into that bear (if I can pull myself together) ... but that does not mean that bear is dead ... :-(

However, with buckshot ... aiming for the head ... ... hmmmmm .... ??
 
All of the problem black bears I've seen killed at close range in camps were shot in the head with slugs. Most at ranges less than 25 yards.

They were all dead right there. None of the slugs bounced off their skulls or faces.
 
I’d still take slugs over buckshot, ask anyone that works in the bush or has real bear experience and they all seem to recommend slugs if carrying a shotgun. I think that’s enough for me, we have a lot of bears in the part of the Okanagan I’m in.

I’m not overly concerned about them as the black bears I’ve run into all ran the opposite direction as fast as possible lol, but I do have slugs on me when I’m out. I haven’t seen any Grizzlies around yet but they’re around that’s for sure and I wouldn’t want to have 00buck if I had an oh #### moment with one of them. I came across the biggest pile of bear poop in oct out hunting, pretty sure it was grizzly scat, it was 2-3 times the size of the black bear poops we were seeing in the area.
 
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