bear defense ammo

ironsighter said:
The exact same statement can be made about guns, and the statistics show that spray has a better chance of being useful in most people's hands than a gun.

f.
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No, not really. When you hose a bear down with spray from 10 feet away and it only pauses him for a bit, then you retreat and keep spraying with a couple of cans, spray, retreat, spray retreat....It's a complete failure. Shooting a bear with a rifle or shotgun at that distance will kill the hell out of it.

Here, I'll rephrase:

I've used spray enough to know that it's another tool in the toolbox, but won't take the place of a firearm. The effectiveness of PROPERLY DEPLOYED spray varies from excellent to useless, from my experiences.
 
ironsighter said:
Very few people can aim anything reliably in that scenario.
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And that's why a gun is not the most effective tool in that scenario unless you ARE one of those few. Shotgun or rifle makes no difference. At short range a shot gun should be viewed as a single projectile gun with bad sights.

popcanhunter:
im least likely to have such skill
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Then you should be thinking about something other than a gun as your tool of first choice - or start practicing. Lots! Or both.

i hit airborne clays with my pistol grip shotgun training for "zombies"
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Shooting clays with shot patterns is not at all what we are talking about here.

There is lots of romanticism in "fending off the wild charging bear" with your trusty gun that makes you the master of all creation, but there are realities out there that make that first of all, VERY unlikely to happen, and second of all, very unlikely to actually work.
 
ironsighter said:
Fixed it for you.
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But....the spray DID hit the vital area! It was all over the bears face. He shrugged it off. Spray UTTERLY FAILED me. Don't know how many bears you've sprayed or shot, but all the ones I've shot fell over. Not all the bears I've sprayed ran off. I've shot bears with .223, 30-30, 303 30-06 270 7RM 338WM 375 H&H 375 Ruger 12 gauge slugs, 12 gauge buckshot, 23/4",3",31/2" and maybe some others I've forgotten. Some were hunting, some were predator control, some were stationary and some were moving. They all died quickly.

My experience tells me that properly deployed spray works most of the time, but not all the time, and it has limitations due to conditions. Properly deployed firearms always work, and will work in any sort of conditions.

Spray is not useless, it's a tool in the toolbox, but not the only tool.
 
The best is whatever you have in your hands. Don't keep it in your backpack or needing to undo a bunch of straps. For me a short 12 gauge works well. I load slug buck slug slug buck in my gun. Slugs for the stopping power buck is good if the animal is moving quickly. Which after the first shot it may be. Bolt actions I have never felt are good dedicated bear guns. For myself to cycle the action and find my sight picture again is just to slow.

Bear spray is by no means a bad item to carry. Unlike a gun the spray makes it so your guess where to aim only has to be close and then you can quickly readjust. But do you really want to be close enough to e bear to be able to use it?
 
rral22 said:
And that's why a gun is not the most effective tool in that scenario unless you ARE one of those few. Shotgun or rifle makes no difference. At short range a shot gun should be viewed as a single projectile gun with bad sights.
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I train people in the use of various Oleoresin Capsicum Pepper Spray deployment tools...

As poor a shot as many may well be with any given firearm in a crisis situation, I can assure you that an equal or greater number of individuals will screw up deploying spray in a crisis situation... most are more likely to affect themselves than their intended target.
 
Gatehouse said:
I've shot bears with .223, 30-30, 303 30-06 270 7RM 338WM 375 H&H 375 Ruger 12 gauge slugs, 12 gauge buckshot, 23/4",3",31/2" and maybe some others I've forgotten. Some were hunting, some were predator control, some were stationary and some were moving. They all died quickly.
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Well allllllllll righty then.
 
popcanhunter said:
anybody here ever been hit with spray?
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ummm yes.

it was horrible and definitely gave me confidence in carrying spray. I work in the bush, and a rifle is just a pain in the butt to hike up mountains day in and day out. i was pushing to bring my shot gun when claim staking in the Yukon, and my senior geologist insisted i would be warn out after a few days with a shotgun while trying to swing an axe ( trail blazing ). so with an axe in one hand while navigating through dense bush, it would be almost impossible to have a shot gun in your hands as-well. Not sure a shot gun strapped to my back would help me if i was charged or spooked a bear. Soo my senior insisted we tested the spray so we had some confidence...

lets just say that the smell of certain peppers, almost makes me sick. I was convulsing, crying, and gasping for air after running through a small mist.

I keep a can holstered on my hip strap of my pack and practice drawing it every time a twig snaps in the forest lol
 
I think that using expired cans of bear spray to practise with is good practice. It teaches you how far the spray goes, how wide the dispersion cone is and also to watch which way the wind is blowing and never to spray it into the wind.

Spraying yourself deliberately in training in a non LE or military environment seems kind of dumb if not dangerous.
 
What about a few genuine Brenneke slugs and am 870 pump shotgun? I think that perhaps this would be my preferred bear defense firearm in a crisis situation than a bolt action rifle.
 
Own 215 acres with our cabin right in the middle. Closes a black bear to our cabin was 80 yards at night and 200 yards during the day.

Our defence my wife and I carry is a large can of bear spray and I tote around a Henry Mare's Leg in 44 Mag loaded with Hornady Leverlution ammo.

But my very first line of defence is... "HEY BEAR... HEY BEAR!!!".
 
hoytcanon said:
I train people in the use of various Oleoresin Capsicum Pepper Spray deployment tools...

As poor a shot as many may well be with any given firearm in a crisis situation, I can assure you that an equal or greater number of individuals will screw up deploying spray in a crisis situation... most are more likely to affect themselves than their intended target.
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Whew! Finally got to participate in a real live Bear Defense thread but the OP has already left the party! This subject is very interesting to me and is
probably my primary reason for carrying gun for a non-sport reason. Nothing much to contribute to the thread other than the above quote is my worst
fear regarding pepper spray because the nozzle is short and spraying takes a second to "range" during which time you are distracted by a very close
bear. I am hoping that any close encounter I am involved with, starts with the bear some fifty yards away (which is my normal experience).
So far in my life, the bear has moved off or I have been able to move off but one day that may change and I would like a suitable rifle in hand.

I like what I have been reading about practicing shooting at a close range moving target. I plan on doing some of that with my SKS. 5 in five seconds!:wave:
 
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The ROC said:
Own 215 acres with our cabin right in the middle. Closes a black bear to our cabin was 80 yards at night and 200 yards during the day.

Our defence my wife and I carry is a large can of bear spray and I tote around a Henry Mare's Leg in 44 Mag loaded with Hornady Leverlution ammo.

But my very first line of defence is... "HEY BEAR... HEY BEAR!!!".
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If you are in bear country... bears have been a heck of a lot closer than 80 yards... like on your porch, sniffing your BBQ... most of the time you would never know it.
 
Not a fan of spray, based on possible wind conditions.... But it is indeed a tool..and i also agree that a rifle requires accuracy...... What are thoughts on alternately loaded shotgun shells?..... Slug, then buckshot?.... I realize buckshot is not ideal, but I can get off 3 quick with a pump, less than two seconds likely... so what are the thoughts on first being a slug and the next two being buckshot?
 
popcanhunter said:
i meant "does anybody have any suggestions for targets to train on?"
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Yep.

Grab some white latex paint and roll it onto the tread and sides of an old tire. Prop the tire up on top of your closest berm, and use a string to release it and have it roll down and towards you. Any hits will shatter the white paint off. Be sure to start in a "not ready" position (rifle slung or however you would normally be when you realize "holy crap here comes a bahr!"). If you want a wider target, just attach two tires by firing some drywall screws through the side walls. Or make several and release them all at the same time and a real live arcade experience.


I did something similar to "train" shooting at running deer. I cut out round pieces of pizza boxes and tucked them inside a tire. I set them up to roll down an old children's slide to my right and roll across in front of me any various ranges. The training was "effective". I only shoot stationary deer now ;-)
 
The debate is over.

-Load your SKS with hunting rounds.

-Extend the bayonet.

-Duct tape a can of bear spray to the bayonet.

-Shoot at the bear THROUGH the can of bear spray.

-Keep pulling the trigger until the noise/biting stops, because your aim/vision will only get worse by the second.
 
hoytcanon said:
If you are in bear country... bears have been a heck of a lot closer than 80 yards... like on your porch, sniffing your BBQ... most of the time you would never know it.
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Not sure if WMU 62 is considered bear country but so far no bear on my trail cam aimed at my cabin. We do our best to keep our grounds around the cabin garbage free.

The bear 200yards from the cabin was my bad... I had a deer feeder set up so you can guess the rest. I took the feeder down the same day I "bumped" into the bear when approaching the feeder by ATV. The bear caught on cam 80 yards away is a well used game trail.
 
The ROC said:
Not sure if WMU 62 is considered bear country but so far no bear on my trail cam aimed at my cabin. We do our best to keep our grounds around the cabin garbage free.

The bear 200yards from the cabin was my bad... I had a deer feeder set up so you can guess the rest. I took the feeder down the same day I "bumped" into the bear when approaching the feeder by ATV. The bear caught on cam 80 yards away is a well used game trail.
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I have a 300 plus pounder on the cam at my camp at 62..... I dont consider blackies a serious threat though...
 
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