Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Thanks Brad, you get it for sure. My main concern is Grizzlies, doesn't apply everywhere.
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bear defense ammo
- Thread starter popcanhunter
- Start date
Thanks Brad, you get it for sure. My main concern is Grizzlies, doesn't apply everywhere.
Bear spray is all the casual user will ever need. Anyone who fishes extensively in Alberta or BC is bound to have an encounter with a bear at some point, a knowledge of the behavior of bears is the best weapon you can ever have against an aggressive or antagonized bear, without it all the other tools are useless.
I agree that carrying around a rifle makes your #### longer and your beard more full and luscious, but bear spray is pretty awesome stuff. I'm shaking my head at the guy who said his crew leader bear sprayed him.
I would say spray is easier to operate than a rifle or shotgun, and the perception that it is some mist that will carried away by wind is pretty far from the reality which is more like spraying a "wasp bomb" aerosol on a grander scale.
When I worked in the field I not only carried around a ton of #### to which I would not be enthusiastic about adding a loaded shotgun, it was verboten by 2/3 companies I worked for to carry a firearm.
Working from a boat in NW BC? It's shotgun time...
I think 12 gauge is all about ammo availability, capability to single load for using the 3 step approach in camps (don't get me started on this) and ease of operation. For the guy who said "12 gauge with slugs is a rifle with bad sights" I would disagree totally. Beads are suggested for field carry because they do not get thrown off of adjustment, do not require lining up and provide all the front sight you need for an encounter occurring at spitting distance.
Most of the lit I've read on field technique from the past suggests "at least a .303 or a heavy shotgun", this stuff was all written before bearspray though.
I don't claim to have met a lot of bear guides but every one I have met carried a shotgun.
Ardent is it not acceptable to put bear spray in the side boxes of choppers? Do you fly a smaller one with the front storage compartment? I'm sorry I don't know their names. I have always hated loading them up and getting on them while they are moving though.
I agree that carrying around a rifle makes your #### longer and your beard more full and luscious, but bear spray is pretty awesome stuff. I'm shaking my head at the guy who said his crew leader bear sprayed him.
I would say spray is easier to operate than a rifle or shotgun, and the perception that it is some mist that will carried away by wind is pretty far from the reality which is more like spraying a "wasp bomb" aerosol on a grander scale.
When I worked in the field I not only carried around a ton of #### to which I would not be enthusiastic about adding a loaded shotgun, it was verboten by 2/3 companies I worked for to carry a firearm.
Working from a boat in NW BC? It's shotgun time...
I think 12 gauge is all about ammo availability, capability to single load for using the 3 step approach in camps (don't get me started on this) and ease of operation. For the guy who said "12 gauge with slugs is a rifle with bad sights" I would disagree totally. Beads are suggested for field carry because they do not get thrown off of adjustment, do not require lining up and provide all the front sight you need for an encounter occurring at spitting distance.
Most of the lit I've read on field technique from the past suggests "at least a .303 or a heavy shotgun", this stuff was all written before bearspray though.
I don't claim to have met a lot of bear guides but every one I have met carried a shotgun.
Ardent is it not acceptable to put bear spray in the side boxes of choppers? Do you fly a smaller one with the front storage compartment? I'm sorry I don't know their names. I have always hated loading them up and getting on them while they are moving though.
Your experience far exceeds mine there.... But with blackies, they seem to be like geese.... Judge you based on appearance and not size .... There are blinds that look like a 5 foot long goose and it doesnt deter a single one... But make it live in an odd way and the flock breaks off..... Weird parallel to draw I know, but dealing with an animal that can size you up,sense danger and withdraw, versus one that can't makes a big difference.....
Yes, that's true, of course. My generalization is an attempt to stop the idea that the fact you see a bear - sometimes fairly close - means you are in mortal danger and need to shoot it. Bears going about their bear business should just be left alone. Bears that see humans as sources of food (either personally, or in our stuff) are a real threat that cannot be removed without the bear's death in most cases. Many bears die due to that fact. But I have seen many bears that were "just passing through", and our paths happen to have crossed. We all just went our way without incident.
Unless it is chewing on someone or something important, it doesn't need to be shot. How's that for an amendment?
Agreed. The vast majority of black bears I have encountered have been cool. A few were not, mostly kitchen raiders.
Bears like us and most other animals are individuals, the products of their DNA and their life experiences. I never presume to know how another is going to act.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Well you've met another North Coast grizzly guide right here, who refuses to carry a shotgun.
I fly for the day job, but in fall I'm an outfitter on the North Coast BC, and we hunt grizzly. I've shot and seen enough bears shot with various guns and cartridges to have limited respect for the 12ga as a stopper, it doesn't matter the size of the hole it's just too slow. The wound tracts are also less impressive than a magnum rifle's. We're a century and a bit behind what they discovered in Africa about the old BP Express rifles, heavy 4, 8, 12 bore rifles throwing large lumps of lead at shotgun velocities. As soon as the first nitro centerfire rounds hit the market they swept out the bore rifles, as they are simply more effective. The same stands true today.
As a utility gun, I like the 12ga a great deal, they are however inferior to even a standard rifle cartridge (ie. .303). Bears aren't hard to kill, even the biggest ones, being lightly constructed creatures with thin skin (in dangerous game terms, think bear construction vs a buffalo or rhino) and are very susceptible to shock from a bullet, the effect that makes them drop their head to their paws, lights out. You'll see that much less with chamberings that impact the animal under 2,200-2,400fps or so. Shot a lot of things culling (antelope admittedly) and was lucky to watch the effect of bullets run at different speeds and that's my personal suspicion, not science.
Flying depends on whether we have pods on or not, I don't always carry the pods and then everything has to be in the same air you're breathing in the cockpit. With the fixed wing I use for outfitting one has no external storage, one does. Either way I fly commercially to work as well and a gun and ammunition can be checked luggage, another benefit. The logistics for me simply mean the choices are ATC handgun or rifle, shotgun in a pinch but a last choice. Above anything I prefer the gun you don't put down or separate from your person, and spray also fails in this regard in aircraft even when it can be stored externally.
I have similar opinions on the 12 gauge. Seems the older generation was more prone to use an enfield or a 30-06, they also surveyed from the decks of boats while drinking rye. The good old days.
Field workers using the shotgun is a result of the culture of the three step method and training organizations who favour it for ease of use, easy to acquire light ammo for training and durability and ease of maintenance in the hands of a non gun nut in adverse conditions.
Bear monitors use of the 12 gauge could be attributed to its ability to use crackers, rubber bullets, and slugs in accordance with the 3 step method. Law Enforcement/CO's same deal, plus making use of equipment that is already LE standard.
I remember reading or being told about a professional big game hunter in North Western BC, or maybe the Alaska Pandhandle, being told to swap his 30-30 for a 30-06 if he wanted to market hunt grizzlies.
Field workers using the shotgun is a result of the culture of the three step method and training organizations who favour it for ease of use, easy to acquire light ammo for training and durability and ease of maintenance in the hands of a non gun nut in adverse conditions.
Bear monitors use of the 12 gauge could be attributed to its ability to use crackers, rubber bullets, and slugs in accordance with the 3 step method. Law Enforcement/CO's same deal, plus making use of equipment that is already LE standard.
I remember reading or being told about a professional big game hunter in North Western BC, or maybe the Alaska Pandhandle, being told to swap his 30-30 for a 30-06 if he wanted to market hunt grizzlies.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I too prefer a rifle for bear work, but a shotgun has the advantage of being able to shoot less lethal ammo, should you prefer to scare the bear away. Its been my observation that live fire, on the bears around here, is only marginally effective, whereas cracker shells supported by rubber bullets seem to get the message across. Where the system breaks down is when less lethal and lethal ammo is used in the same gun. There can be errors made under stress concerning which ammo is in the chamber, and occasionally a cracker shell can leave a partial barrel obstruction which will not result in a good situation when a full powered load is fired. I suggest you contact Margo Supply and get a scare pistol, blank cartridges, either rimfire or centerfire, and scare cartridges to support your kill gun. I'm not a fan of pepper spray due because its always windy here. If the kill gun is a long gun anyway, it might as well be a rifle.
my apologies.
Having worked in the bush most of my life, and spent the rest in the bush recreationally, I would be more worried about Bull Moose during the rut than I would any bear. Bears are usually more scared of you, or could care less, unless frightened or forced to defend themselves or their young. Naturally there are exceptions to any rule and sometimes they just won't leave you alone, but it's rare.
A rutting moose on the other hand can be serious trouble if you aren't "hunting". I have spent far too much time up trees or evading angry/amorous bulls in my life.
A rutting moose on the other hand can be serious trouble if you aren't "hunting". I have spent far too much time up trees or evading angry/amorous bulls in my life.
