Bear Defense Rifle

H4831
The more of your stuff that I read the better I like you. I wasn't suggesting that you had never stepped off the sidewalk, and no disrespect was intended. I was simply trying to make the point that an individual's particular activity on a given day has much to do with the threat level he operates under.

I've heard the bears have poor eyesight thing before, and I've seen behavior in bears that seems to both support and dispute this premise. Consider a small bear I was pushing along a chain link fence. Ten feet from the end of the fence the dope turns and runs right into it. One could assume he didn't see the fence he was running along, just a few feet away, but I think his eagerness to get away overcame other considerations.

Consider another bear, a big male that was feeding on a seal carcass he had pulled from the river into a stand of willows at the bottom of a rocky outcrop a few summers back. He had his head buried right inside the seal, and his nasal passages would of been full of blood and anyone who has had anything to do with seals will confirm that seals have a thick permeating odor about them. Something made that bear look over his shoulder, a sound perhaps, right at my pal who was standing on top of the outcrop and getting the demise of the unfortunate seal captured on video. Well, when that bear looked over his shoulder and spotted him, there was no sniffing of the air and no hesitation, he walked rapidly through the stand of willows and circled around to where he could easily climb to the top of the outcrop, looking back frequently to pin point his target. It took him less than a minute to cover what I would estimate to be very close to a quarter mile of travel. That was quite a sight, to see this very big bear with his head covered in blood, moving very purposely with the obvious intention of killing my pal. I've often said that a bear attack isn't real until he's broken the 30' range, because up until that point he isn't committed and he can change his mind. I'll consider this guy an exception to the rule. Anyway, the point is that he identified his target by sight and proceeded after him by sight. My pal got his 4 wheeler fired up and got out of there, but the bear by then had picked up his scent and that night found and savaged his Zodiak, deflating 2 chambers. I believe this action demonstrates a capacity for thought and malevolence seldom attributed to wild animals. The bear never showed up at the cabin, if he had I'm sure it would of been lights out for yogi.

An experience I had also suggests that a bear's eyesight might be better than we would think. It was late November when we spotted fresh bear tracks going across the road and out onto a small lake. Fresh bear tracks for me are a temptation too great to resist, so we pulled off the road, bundled up and started off after him. Yes, it was a him, the tracks were too large to be made by a female. It was a clear day and there was a south wind so at no time was the bear going to be able to get our scent as our approach was to the south. We tracked him for perhaps 4 miles and crossed 5 small lakes. At the south end of the 5th lake there was an open stream that flowed into the lake from a very thick tangle of willows, and the tracks followed this open stream into the thicket. Mum never raised foolish children, so rather than go busting into that thicket we circled around an got onto lake #6 and there were no tracks!! That son of a gun knew we were on his trail, which means he had been watching us approach, and decided to lay a trap. We on the other hand had never laid eyes on him, although granted his color was something of an advantage for him, and our dark clothing a disadvantage for us. Never the less, he must of picked us up visually from at least a mile away. Perhaps bears are like people and some have better eyesight than others.
 
Boomer - how do you camp/sleep outdoors in bear country?
besides the obvious care taken with waste/food, do you take any other precautions?

Brno602.jpg

is that your 'bear defence rifle'?
why did you choose to go with the short barrel/scout mount? does the scope always stay on?
 
When I am out for an extended period of time, particularly in the summer and fall when there is a significant amount of bear activity, I pic my camping spots with some care. What I am looking for is a high piece of ground, close to water, that is open and free of willows. I don't like tents much when bears are around, and prefer to use a tarp, although this has caused me some uncomfortable nights, particularly when one experiences early or late summer snow squalls, but I prefer having the visibility. Mostly I use the same sites over and over, but I do scout around a bit to see if there has been any recent bear activity prior to setting up camp.

I like magic pantry meals, or military rations that we get from the Rangers from time to time. There is no smell from this stuff until you open it, and the packages are burnt right afterwards.

I consider a good pair of binoculars one of the most important pieces of safety equipment you can carry. Being able to study the terrain well out in from will let you know if that is a rock, or not. In recent years a satellite phone and a GPS has also found its way into my pack.

The Brno 602 in the pic you posted is my primary bear gun. It's chambered for the .375 Ultra, and drives a 380 gr bullet at 2300 fps from the 20" barrel. I like the short barrel as it keeps the balance between my hands, it can be brought into action quickly even if I'm dumb enough to get into trouble in a stand of willows, and it is less prone to damage when I'm climbing through the rocks along the coast than would be a long barreled rifle. This little rifle jumps around enthusiastically when I fire it, and the scout scope ensures that I don't get tagged. Even so, under ideal conditions I can get an aimed second shot off before the empty cartridge case hits the ground. I have a ghost ring in case the scope fails or is damaged if I have a fall or some other unforeseen problem. Mostly of the time the scope is mounted except when I want to practice with the ghost ring to keep my edge. The comb of the McMillan stock is high enough that when shooting with the ghost ring; my cheek has to be pushed firmly onto the stock to get a good sight picture, and this causes my head to be snapped back when the rifle recoils resulting in some discomfort, as happens when I shoot prone with the scope. Last week I shot a 2.25" 100 yard 6 shot group with full powered loads. Now before anyone makes slanderous remarks about the accuracy of the rifle, I would point out that group was made up of 3 fired pairs; 2 shots off hand, 2 shots kneeling and 2 shots sitting. I was pleased.

I have 2 other bear guns. One is a Mossberg 590 with the ghost ring rifle sights. This is my around town and house gun where excessive penetration of a rifle bullet could be dangerous to other people. I also have an ATC which allows me to carry my 45/8" Super Blackhawk or my 6" M-27 S&W. A handgun is a particularly comforting tool to have at hand at night.
 
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I've heard the bears have poor eyesight thing before, and I've seen behavior in bears that seems to both support and dispute this premise.

Well, the latest research is quite interesting.

It is believed at this time that bear ocular organs offer the same acuity (sharpness of picture) that human eyes have. This is much different than deer for example, who's vision is not as sharp as ours at all.

Further, we know they have a tapetum lucidum lining in their eyes - that's the reflective lining that gives animals 'night vision', and makes their eyes glow when you shine a light on it in the dark.

Also - it is believed that Black bears have SOME or possibly full colour vision. They are able to distinguish berries by colour for example.

There is also a great deal of evidence that as you say - bear eyesight differs in quality just as it does in humans, with some being nearly blind and others seeing like hawks.

So why don't bears see us the same as we can see them? - there's some evidence that the difference is in the 'software', not the hardware.

Remember that how we see things is largely due to how our brain is designed to process images.

It is believed now that bears brains really require a strong silhouette or specific movements to 'see' or notice something at distance. They do not seem to key on the same visual clues that we do. They miss things we'd notice, and this leads people to think their eyesight is poor.

Their noses are FAR better than their eyes, and their brains seem to be designed around relying on that a lot more. There are many examples of where a bear will follow a scent, even tho it can clearly see it's target (such as a female bear it's hoping to get jiggy with :) ) and could take a shorter route to get there.

There's stories about the bear that busted someone at 500 yards, there's stories about a bear walking right up to someone within 40 yards in the open before it noticed them and bolted like the wind. I think they see fine - but I think their brains are wired different than ours and they just don't trust their eyes, they rely on their noses more and they don't 'react' to images the way they do to smell.
 
The Brno 602 in the pic you posted is my primary bear gun
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God that's a gorgeous gun :D

I don't personally like scopes on guns that are mostly for defense/survival, but if i was going to a 2 power scout scope is exactly what' i'd do - that's gotta be pretty fast at picking up targets.
 
Foxer, that pic was taken when the rifle was new and shiny, it's starting to look "experienced" now. The scope in the pic is a 2.75X Burris Scout, but I've replaced it with an older 2X Leupold EER. I should add, that from time to time I do bear security work, and when you are protecting other people, you might have to make a longish shot as people tend to string out as they travel in a group or for that matter on a work site. In such circumstances a low powered scope is a viable sight option on a defensive/protective firearm.

Clearly though, with what ever firearm/sight system one chooses; you need to practice close range snap shooting in a realistic manner to keep your edge in anticipation of a bear/human conflict resolution scenario. If your practice is realistic, any weaknesses in your equipment will become quickly apparent, and you will have the opportunity to address those weaknesses before you are faced with the real deal.
 
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Foxer, that pic was taken when the rifle was new and shiny, it's starting to look "experienced" now.

Yeah, well, aren't we all :D Just adds character :)
I should add, that from time to time I do bear security work, and when you are protecting other people, you might have to make a longish shot as people tend to string out as they travel in a group or for that matter on a work site. In such circumstances a low powered scope is a viable sight option on a defensive/protective firearm.

I'd guessed as much :) I've seen a few guys with similar rigs and they're either GSAR bear defense or contractors for forestry folks. I'm told that scout scope setup is pretty damn fast tho - you can keep both eyes' open while aiming and i gotta figure you're not 'losing' much in close quarters to good ole fashioned iron sights.
 
Boomer if you could/had too redo that rifle would you stick with the 20" barrel or leave it a bit longer say 22" - 24" ???
 
For the most part I think I got it right. If I had it to do again I would stick with the short barrel. The ballistics from the Ultra in the short barrel match the long barrel ballistics of an H&H, which was the purpose of the exercise. Because I am quite happy with the way the rifle handles, and I don't need higher velocity, so there is no need to go to a longer barrel. If I wanted some muzzle heaviness, I could simply choose a barrel with a heavier contour.

There are minor changes I would make. If I could find a stock of equal quality to the McMillan with a lower comb, it would be better for my purposes, but the McMillan is a top notch product and I do not regret the investment. I would choose a non-fluted barrel next time and perhaps a cartridge trap in the butt. I would get the excellent NECG ghost ring rear sight rather than the Talley, but the scope I long for does not yet exist. It would be a 2.5X EER with an etched reticle, and with low profile adjustments similar to the ones on my old Khales 6X sniper to make adjustments between loads easier. I see the Leupold custom shop now will put M-1 turrets on their EER scope, but these are much too large on the small scope and I think too easily damaged. The M-3 turrets would be better, but they are not an option at this time. The adjustments on the new VX-7 are also very good, but they do not seem to be available on any other models.

The real question is, if I had it to do over right now, would I stay with the 602 or go to a Ruger Alaskan? I think I would stick with the 602, but the project took a long time to complete and it was a lot of money - enough to buy 3 Ruger Alaskans with change to spare. The only significant advantages of the Brno are 2 more rounds in the magazine, and 100 fps in velocity.
 
Hey Boomer!

The Flutes look sort of Charlie Brown.. :slap: (I'm kidding)

My 375 Ultra gets a new barrel any day now....It's way heavier than the factory piece!

Did you ever try RL-25 and the 380's??
 
Boomer thanks for the thoughts, I have been thinking about shortening my barrel on my 375RUM.

I'm going to wait until after my spring grizzly hunt before I do anything though.

I'm also interested in your front sight could you tell me about it?

Too get back to the thread for a minute I have a synthetic Rem 7400 carbine in 30-06 that I had Shane at Reliable Gun & Tackle tune up it now functions flawlessly and yes I would trust it in a bear defense situation.

Normally I wouldn't recommend a semi for bear defense but this rifle with 180gr - 220gr round nose or spitzer jacketed bullets now functions perfectly everytime.

For those that have asked if anyone has actually shot bears in charge/defense situations there are some of us here that have definately had to do the deed.

Just remember black bears are not hard to kill hit them hard and they will drop you may have to do a kill shot afterwards but you will stop them fast if you hit the right spot.

For those of you pushing the 44mag in semi-auto's these rifle/cartridge combos will work very well with the right bullets they actually out to 150 yards have more killing power than a 30-30.
 
X-Fan, the Re-25 bulked out with the 380's before I could get the velocity. I am waiting to get some Hybrid 100V, and am hopeful this will do some magic due to it's high density loading. By the way, I have similar feelings about fluted barrels, but the price was right on this one, as was the fluted Lilja on my .243.

CC, The front barrel band is a Ruger, and Dave Jennings made the blade from a piece of brass. The effect of the brass sight is startling in that it appears black against a white surface and appears white against black.
 
It's hard to believe that someone from BC would be suggesting that black bear attacks are a myth - I'll say straight out that you haven't done your homework.

Find me your numerous "BC bears attack" evidence. Yes they do attack now and then, but its not like they're hunting you down and from everything I've heard and read, its seems its more of an attack in self defense or human stupidity. Should worry more about them wolves as they are a different story.
 
Yes they do attack now and then, but its not like they're hunting you down and from everything I've heard and read, its seems its more of an attack in self defense or human stupidity.

Well, you've already been given some links to look at for numbers, but just to correct you on this point, almost ALL black bear attacks are predatory. They do not attack in self defense as a rule - a black bear's self defense tactic of choice is to swap ends and run like hell. Once in a while you'll hear of someone practically stepping on a bear or the bear will be entering their tent and they surprise each other, in which case the bear will often nip - but just a bite like a dog might and they're gone.

If you read up on gary shelton's stuff, he points out a concerning trend - the fact is that prior to 1996 attacks appear to have been far more rare, but since then they've increased substantially. This is probably due to the rather large increase in bear population we've had since around that time.

It is quite correct to say that attacks are still fairly rare - people should NOT be paranoid or freak out over it. We talk about it here more than it really needs to be talked about :). But its DEFINATELY not something to dismiss - it's a genuine concern when you're out in the woods and it's something to prepare for, especially if you're moving around in bear areas or at times of the day bears are likely to be about.
 
When the snow finally melts away I will be back at work dealing with black bears everyday.

They may not always be close to me but I see them as I work solo in remote wilderness areas.

Due to this I never stop being prepared for a violent bear encounter.

20 years ago there were only 90,000 black bears in BC now there are well over 200,000 black bears which is more than 1/2 of Canada's black bear population.

It is commonly taught by the provincial officials of BC that the younger males are the most dangerous to encounter, next are the larger males that are looking at you as dinner, females with cubs will chase the cubs away or up a tree or run away from you 99% of the time.

A bear attack doesn't mean that it is in an full out charge bears try to conserve as much energy as they can and will slowly walk in on their intended meal to save energy.

In my personal encounters with black bears 99% of the time the bears will run away from me as soon as they see me but I also do something that is natural to them I act agressively too them because I have the tools to stop them with me and they understand agression.
 
Boomer, nice looking bush rig !


You dont have to worry about bears attacking.

I could name a dozen people in 1 small community that may take offence to that comment, but only because they have been attacked or lost a loved 1 to an attack in the past couple years ;)

Find me your numerous "BC bears attack" evidence. Yes they do attack now and then, but its not like they're hunting you down and from everything I've heard and read, its seems its more of an attack in self defense or human stupidity.

the only human stupidity is that of which beleives they are 100% safe when confronted by a bear !

and find you the numerous attacks in BC? :slap:
sounds to me that your to lazy to do your own research ;)
 
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