Oh? It's close but the .30-30 170 grain has more foot lbs. of energy at 100, 200, and 300 yards than the .44 250 grain. (These are the optimum weights for energy figures for both catridges.) However, I get your message. I'd agree that they're both comparable and do the job on bears.
Bear Defense Rifle
- Thread starter DSC223
- Start date
Oh? It's close but the .30-30 170 grain has more foot lbs. of energy at 100, 200, and 300 yards than the .44 250 grain. (These are the optimum weights for energy figures for both catridges.) However, I get your message. I'd agree that they're both comparable and do the job on bears.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
While foot pounds of energy might be a measure of work, the measurement does not equate to the effectiveness of a bullet on a game animal. With shots other than those to the central nervous system, death subsequently results from a lack of oxygenated blood reaching the brain causing the brain to die. The effect of the bullet on tissue is determined by the frontal area of the bullet, by the construction of the bullet, and by the momentum of the bullet created by the combination of weight and velocity. Bullet expansion with jacketed soft points becomes inconsistent at velocities below 2000 fps. The effect of a heavy wide flat nose non-expanding cast .44 bullet on tissue at velocities between 1200 and 1800 fps will certainly be the equal and in some circumstances exceed the wound cavity produced by a .30 caliber bullet of half the weight and a velocity of 2000 fps. Should that .30 caliber round nosed bullet fail to expand, or expand and fail to penetrate, it will take longer for the game animal to succumb to the wound. The velocity possible with the .30/30 gives it an advantage of range over the .44 by perhaps 50 yard. But when both cartridges are used within their range limitations, it is unlikely that much of a case could be made in favor of one over the other, except that I can carry my .44 on my belt.
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I was just playing aorund wiht some 45-08 loads. I shot a couple into a 13" diameter pine log.
45 caliber 230gr FMJ FP and 230gr Hornady XTP Hollowpoint. Both at about 1300fps.
I shoudl have shot a 30-30 factory load into the log, too.
Anyway, both bullets completely penetrated, and I chopped up the log to take a look at the "wound" channel. Both looked pretty good.
I'll probably shoot some into some newspaper at some point, see what hapens. I was happily surprised to see the full penetration, as most 45ACP ammo shot into similar logs doesn't completley penetrate.
45 caliber 230gr FMJ FP and 230gr Hornady XTP Hollowpoint. Both at about 1300fps.
I shoudl have shot a 30-30 factory load into the log, too.
Anyway, both bullets completely penetrated, and I chopped up the log to take a look at the "wound" channel. Both looked pretty good.
I'll probably shoot some into some newspaper at some point, see what hapens. I was happily surprised to see the full penetration, as most 45ACP ammo shot into similar logs doesn't completley penetrate.
The scariest thing on this planet is bears, especially in the spring. They are behind every tree - down every hole or cave - just waiting. Waiting to pounce on you and eat you. There is no escape. But please, let's not panic, a good bear spray will do wonders.
Other than that .223 is a minimum.
Other than that .223 is a minimum.
Takujualuk
CGN Regular
- Location
- Whitehorse, Yukon
A bear attack is all giggles and laughs until it actually happens to you. Then it isn't so funny. Guy from my little town was killed and eaten last year by a starved black bear. Hungry, predacious black bears are highly motivated and though spray is a good start; I think a Ruger 44 Carbine would be just the right 5.75 pound insurance policy to have on your person. In fact loaded with 5, 250 grain Nosler Partitions I'd be pretty reassured in grizzly country too.
In fact I just bought a Ruger 44 carbine on the EE to test my opinion. I have better hunting rifles and my 7 pound 358 Norma would hit a lot harder but my wife couldn't shoot it (Kicks too hard) and it's so cumbersome that I'd likely leave it lying in the tent or canoe instead of carrying the damn thing.
I am thinking I can adapt a folding 10-22 stock to fit the 44 Ruger. Keeping the overall length to 29" will make a very handy package to carry. S
In fact I just bought a Ruger 44 carbine on the EE to test my opinion. I have better hunting rifles and my 7 pound 358 Norma would hit a lot harder but my wife couldn't shoot it (Kicks too hard) and it's so cumbersome that I'd likely leave it lying in the tent or canoe instead of carrying the damn thing.
I am thinking I can adapt a folding 10-22 stock to fit the 44 Ruger. Keeping the overall length to 29" will make a very handy package to carry. S
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I,ll be interested to see how this turns out, keep us posted. The curved metal butt plate can be murder on the shoulder when target shooting, doubt it would bother me during a bear encounter
Here is the perfect fast handling carbine in a cartridge that will down any black bear h ttp://www.legacysports.com/products/puma/index.html take the spaces away between the h & t...
I have one of the s/s 20" 454 Casull's and would like to get my hands onto a 16" barreled model.
I get 2300fps with 240gr XTP-Mag's, 1900fps with 300gr XTP-Mag's & 300gr Gold Dot's, 1860fps with 360gr Cast Performance WLNGC's and 1600fps with 405gr Beartooth WLNGC's plus I can shoot all of my different 45 Colt loads as well.
It holds 10 45 Colt's or 9 454 Casull's in the mag tube and the shorter rifle is supposed to hold 7 or 8 rounds.
No the rifle didn't come with the black/gray laminate stocks I bought a semi-custom set, finished them and installed them.
I have one of the s/s 20" 454 Casull's and would like to get my hands onto a 16" barreled model.
I get 2300fps with 240gr XTP-Mag's, 1900fps with 300gr XTP-Mag's & 300gr Gold Dot's, 1860fps with 360gr Cast Performance WLNGC's and 1600fps with 405gr Beartooth WLNGC's plus I can shoot all of my different 45 Colt loads as well.
It holds 10 45 Colt's or 9 454 Casull's in the mag tube and the shorter rifle is supposed to hold 7 or 8 rounds.
No the rifle didn't come with the black/gray laminate stocks I bought a semi-custom set, finished them and installed them.
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
The flip side of that argument is that there is no chance of short stroking a semi auto. There is much to be said for the choice of a semi auto shotgun or rifle for the person who is not a gun enthusiast, but does need a firearm for bear work.
Again, regardless of the firearm chosen, it is incumbent on the individual to ensure that his firearm and ammunition are both compatable and reliable.
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Takujualuk
CGN Regular
- Location
- Whitehorse, Yukon
Well my Ruger carbine arrived and my wife and I have cycled 25 rounds through it. Looking at the design of these old tube magazine Rugers I can't see it jamming if in good condition and shooting good ammo.! Wonderful design work!
The good news is that my wife enjoys shooting it! 5, 240 grain softpoints should make some good points in an argument with a bear. I'd rate the impact at close range as significantly greater than the 30-30, though we use one of these as a tent gun too.
The good news is that my wife enjoys shooting it! 5, 240 grain softpoints should make some good points in an argument with a bear. I'd rate the impact at close range as significantly greater than the 30-30, though we use one of these as a tent gun too.
I would go lever. A Henry lever model.
