Bear defense

Bit of a goofy way at looking at it, will be a huge relief knowing next Grizzly charge I can relax and casually tell the bear I don’t need to worry about her, I’m looking out for a distracted soccer mom. Like saying you only have a slim chance of dying of smoking as a Canadian, without looking at if you smoke or not. I guide bear hunts and trips in Grizzly country for a living, and 95% of Americans live where there are no Grizzly Bears. Figure we have the same risk exposure...? Or that I have the same exposure to traffic accidents urban Americans do? :)

whitehorse is not safe traffic talking about lol ...

and we have even grizzly in town ...
 
Grizzly bears are a real threat in certain areas. the last trip up northern bc I did, the owner of a ranch we visited had numerous stories of having to put down big bears. Comes down to rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it
 
The only logical bear defence is a self defence bear.

You need to sneak into a hibrenating mother grizzley bears den and steal the biggest most promising male cub and hand feed it until adulthood.

You then have to find an illegal dog fight and let him cut his teeth on fighting first one dog then more as he gains confidence. Make sure to praise him and show him love because he isnt an unloved pit fighting dog he is your self defence bear.

Next you need to put him up against some black bears or maybe an ornrey old bull, de horned for safety of course.

Make sure he is well fed and obedience trained, because you don't want him to be a neighborhood nusance getiing into garbage cans or pooping on you neighbors lawn.

Now you can confidently walk in any wooded area or even Toronto and feel safe and secure with your self defence bear. Easy peasy.
As a bonus you don't need to carry a gun for woodland self defence and that should make liberal sjw's happy.

Only a matter of time before they are prohibited. Might as well get a head start and potential grandfathered liscense
 
whitehorse is not safe traffic talking about lol ...

and we have even grizzly in town ...

You're gonna have at least two in a couple of weeks. :) Doesn't make you special though, we've got a sow and two cubs in the neighborhood. Took a run at a friends truck.

Grizz
 
I'd pass on the mare's leg, and stick with a 12 ga. The .357 represents a minimum threshold if you are carrying a handgun, but there is no need to limit yourself to that extent when carrying a long gun. Pump shotguns tend to be less expensive than rifles that are suitable for self defense. A 12 ga provides the added versatility of firing less lethal ammunition such as cracker-shells and rubber bullets, although combining less lethal and lethal ammunition in the same gun is a practice I disapprove of for a bunch of reasons. Given the current fire situation in BC, it behooves anyone using cracker-shells or any other pyrotechnic to use extreme caution. If you fire the cracker-shell straight up, it reduces the chance of fire, and eliminates the problem of the cracker exploding behind the bear.

For a new out of the box, reliable, low cost gun, consider a Mossberg Maverick 88. At one time I had a low opinion of this gun, but the recent ones I've handled and fired leave nothing to be desired. The actions cycle smoothly and the triggers break cleanly. If you're willing to spend a bit more, look for a new or used Mossberg 500 or better yet a 590. I carry a 590 with a Magpul SGA buttstock, which uses spacers for adjusting the length of pull. Avoid guns with very short barrels, where you hand could inadvertently slide forward off the forend and in front of the muzzle as you fire. The damage would be life changing, and if in a remote area, might not be survivable.



Sights on shotguns are a bit of a problem. Low cost guns frequently have bead front sight mounted directly on the barrel. This puts the bead lower than the height of the receiver, and will cause you to shoot high, if you put the bead in the center of the target. Consider putting rifle sight s on your gun if it doesn't come with them, or a pedestal under the bead to raise it above the height of the receiver. A technique that can be used is that once you have your sight picture, depress the muzzle until the bead disappears from your line of sight, and the moment that happens, press the trigger. While its not intuitive, it works after a fashion if you practice. Some folks claim they just need to hide half of the bead, so they don't entirely lose their aiming point.

So I'm a little concerned with your desire for a "beater gun". In my experience, which is considerable, too often folks buy cheap guns, then neglect and abuse them, because they're cheap beaters, to the point that they won't function when they need to. In that condition the gun cannot save you. What is your life worth? Buy a good reliable gun. Don't worry about using it in the rain, it will tolerate that provided its wiped dry and oiled at the end of the day. Be aware that in wet environments shotgun shells tarnish quickly when exposed to the elements, and become difficult to cycle. So on extended trips, ensure the gun is unloaded at least daily and the shells from both the magazine and side saddle are wiped dry before being reloaded. Both the bore and the magazine should be patched out if they get wet. If you are operating in steep, slippery, rocky, country, a heat shield will help protect the thin barrel from being dented in the case of a fall.

The correct ammunition for bear defense is slugs, buckshot has no advantage except in circumstances where over-penetration might endanger others; I'm thinking here of towns and crowded camp grounds. At the range at which you will shoot a bear, the pattern of the buckshot will still be very tight, and the gun must be aimed with the same precision as a rifle. Consider that as a rule of thumb, shot patterns open up at a rate of about an inch per yard. A bear can't hurt you if it can't touch you, so the purpose of shooting is to prevent the bear from touching you. That suggests a range of say 3-5 yards, and at 5 yards the pattern is unlikely to be larger than 5". Don't shoot center of mass, shoot for the spine or the brain. If the bear is broadside shoot for the point of the shoulder or the hip. Once he's immobilized, he can be killed with a head shot. I like Rottweil Brenneke slugs, and Challengers are my second choice. In buckshot, the stuff that provides the densest patterns in my gun are 3" Federal Premium 00 Buck. I keep the magazine filled with slugs, and have 6 buckshot loads in the sidesaddle since this is the gun I use close to, and around town.

If you intend to shoot less lethal rounds, fire them singly, loaded through the ejection port. If you buy a gun like a Winchester Defender, the elevator might have lips that make it easier to load from the magazine, if so carry the gun with 1 round short of having the magazine fully loaded, then single load the less lethal round into the magazine and cycle the action to chamber it. An extended magazine offers little advantage in the bear defense role, and when fully loaded adds weight to the gun, making it more fatiguing to carry for long hours, and increases the chances of it being left behind when bear sign is not evident. The gun should have a sling, a simple nylon carry strap works fine, I prefer 1.25" slings to the 1" models. The important thing is to practice loading and unloading the gun. Once you get it, do it in the dark, do it upside down. Work out a reliable system for selecting a shell that is different in type than what you have in the magazine, and get it in the chamber. This might be through the ejection port or fed from the magazine. If you need another one, you have to cycle the action only part way so the fired round is ejected, but the subsequent round in the magazine isn't released. If it is, roll the gun on its side to drop the the round from the magazine out of the ejection port.

Hope this helps.

Almost didn't open this thread as this topic is often explored. Really glad I did and saw this post.
 
OP Be extremely careful where you take it. Always an overzealous officer looking to nail someone that one time in your whole entire life you make the mistake that lands you in prison. Canada is far too unforgiving to us as a whole. A lot of places actually do NOT allow firearms around (Shuswap being one) at all or with a ton of restrictions as to when you can have them, for what purpose and all the rest of it. Absolutely none of those restrictions should withstand a constitutional test or a Right challenge under section 7 (right to be safe) but the morons that be in charge of the courts usually.... usually don't care about us too damn much. Surprisingly quite a few places you can't bring them, even NON-RESTRICTED firearms.

Remember, kids. Just because it's the law, doesn't mean it had to make sense. -Brad (my firearms instructor)
 
Many gun owners in BC just assume that crown land is wide open for target shooting and hiking/camping with a firearm for "protection from wildlife".
No such laws exist in BC that allow you to do that unless you have a valid hunting license.
Before bill c-68 if a person wanted to carry firearms for use on crown land and didn't have a hunting license, they went in to the gun store and bought a permit. I still have the last one I bought , it cost 25 dollars. A real live "permit to carry" though it's not right in front of me so that's not the actual wording LOL
anyhow.....
to carry a firearm on crown land in BC you must have a PAL and you must have a hunting license.
If you are carrying ammunition designed for hunting during a close hunting season...... a CO can interpret that any way he wishes.
Smart folks carry a shotgun with less lethal and solids
If they are carrying a rifle, it better be non hunting ammunition such as FMJ and ya better have a staple gun and a stack of paper targets in your pack for good measure.

that's how Glenn the CO around here in 5-02 explained it to me a couple years ago.... and I was also told this years ago in my BC core course before i even got my hunting license.
I should add this..... in many regions of BC anyways, certain critters are open year round like coyotes, wolves maybe.... ect. An informed gun toting hiker/camper/backwoods enthusiast, hunter or not, would be wise to get thier hunting license and renew it every year at start of april. This covers you for carrying a firearm and ammunition suitable for dispatching said animal as long as such open seasons exist where you are recreating.
 
The only logical bear defence is a self defence bear.

You need to sneak into a hibrenating mother grizzley bears den and steal the biggest most promising male cub and hand feed it until adulthood.

You then have to find an illegal dog fight and let him cut his teeth on fighting first one dog then more as he gains confidence. Make sure to praise him and show him love because he isnt an unloved pit fighting dog he is your self defence bear.

Next you need to put him up against some black bears or maybe an ornrey old bull, de horned for safety of course.

Make sure he is well fed and obedience trained, because you don't want him to be a neighborhood nusance getiing into garbage cans or pooping on you neighbors lawn.

Now you can confidently walk in any wooded area or even Toronto and feel safe and secure with your self defence bear. Easy peasy.
As a bonus you don't need to carry a gun for woodland self defence and that should make liberal sjw's happy.

And of course the guard bear can carry a pack or pull a small cart.So no need for lamas or donkeys.but if you want to bring them as food on the hoof
 
Many gun owners in BC just assume that crown land is wide open for target shooting and hiking/camping with a firearm for "protection from wildlife".
No such laws exist in BC that allow you to do that unless you have a valid hunting license.
Before bill c-68 if a person wanted to carry firearms for use on crown land and didn't have a hunting license, they went in to the gun store and bought a permit. I still have the last one I bought , it cost 25 dollars. A real live "permit to carry" though it's not right in front of me so that's not the actual wording LOL
anyhow.....
to carry a firearm on crown land in BC you must have a PAL and you must have a hunting license.
If you are carrying ammunition designed for hunting during a close hunting season...... a CO can interpret that any way he wishes.
Smart folks carry a shotgun with less lethal and solids
If they are carrying a rifle, it better be non hunting ammunition such as FMJ and ya better have a staple gun and a stack of paper targets in your pack for good measure.

that's how Glenn the CO around here in 5-02 explained it to me a couple years ago.... and I was also told this years ago in my BC core course before i even got my hunting license.
I should add this..... in many regions of BC anyways, certain critters are open year round like coyotes, wolves maybe.... ect. An informed gun toting hiker/camper/backwoods enthusiast, hunter or not, would be wise to get thier hunting license and renew it every year at start of april. This covers you for carrying a firearm and ammunition suitable for dispatching said animal as long as such open seasons exist where you are recreating.
Not at all true, I’ve been stopped many times by the fish cops over the last 25 years, a majority of that time all I had was a fishing license and was carrying shotguns or a long gun loaded with soft points, most times nothing was even said about the guns, the times they did ask why I was open about bear protection, never had an issue. Lots of big bears around my area. Care to show where in the regs or anywhere that states this??? Utter BS
 
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Who is afraid of dying in a car accident?

I guess you are 20'000 times more likely to die in a car accident ... than from a bear attack ....

https://www.thealaskalife.com/outdoors/bear-attacks-statistic/

If you quote Alaska stats you are getting the result of each data point carrying a 50 S&W; a glock 20; and a Marlin modified for 50 alaskan. From the videos I watched, they aren't just carrying one of the above, they are carrying all of the above. :)

And they banned the BC hunt, that might affect things.

And the stats are different if you actually live amoung bears, as Ardent mentioned.

Here are two interesting data points I gleaned from some research this summer:

1) There is this guy who tracks all the attacks. I live on a farm with black bear moms and cubs, no brown bears. It just so happened that the three most recent attacks and fatalities, were 3 separate cases of bears attacking through tents. One bear attacked 3 tents in the one evening and on the third try killed someone. Anyway, my confidence in Bear spray is zero in that situation. Trying to find it while being mauled and then spray the bear through the wall of a tent.

2) I got really interested in this African PH program. In their game you get flushed out if you ever put your rifle down, or lean it against something, or point it at one of the other students (who are in that situation like your clients). That seems to be a lot of what is missing when it comes to bear defense in NA. People want to swagger around with guns, but they don't believe enough in the threat to be essentially a the ready every second of the day. That guy who selfied himselfright after taking two bear attacks from a large brownie defending cubs. He spotted her first at a distance, and then even so did not get his pistol out (he was handgun hunting elk) in time, and the bear spray didn't work. He was a park employee with 30 years in the bush, and something like 15+ elk kills with a handgun. And he didn't get the gun out the second time she came for him. I think both time she was trying to flank him. I think he would have got her the first time if he had a rifle in his hands, as the PHs (and of course western guides also) do, and a no joking caliber. And if he was able to make the right shot.
 
There have been some great deals on 9.3x62s this past year. I can't really think of anything better with the right bullets.
 
There are a lot of apologists that quote stats that actually make the situation worse. So if the stats are low for bear, or shark attacks, when the vast majority of people don't live near them, and probably at least 50% of those who do frequent those margins where they live are not actually among them either. So basically what you are left with is that everyone who is anywhere near them is getting rolled.

So in my part of NB, people tell you the bears are no problem, nothing to worry about. Well 99% of the people are on their divices; into their cars and across their rural properties off to work; ride around all day in a 20 000 lbs machine; go from house to water and back again. Granted some folks hunt and cut wood, neither of which occur around here during the summer when the sows and cubs are playing family.

Now my daughter did a 150 page report on lichens in the woods, and she got growled at frequently.
 
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If you think it’s fun explaining a long gun try ATC’ing a handgun in a profession you meet COs or RCMP in. It’s like having tits on your hip the entire conversation, no eye contact.

Pretty sad how it's become that way. MB COs have only carried handguns for the past 15 years or so. Now I've noticed the younger officers always turn the hip their gun is holstered on away from "armed" hunters while talking to them, like they're expecting someone to lunge at their gun or to get shot at any minute. Same with RCMP. The older guys still act normal, it must be something they're teaching recently.
 
When I get my renewed ATC I take a copy to the RCMP we have a very good relationship with them up here. They all know I have an ATC and when we meet in the country there are no questions about the handgun other than can they take a look at it or do I know where they can find a bear.
 
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