Bear Protection Shotgun

DGY said:
Thing is up here if I had to bring a shotgun when I go where there is bears I would have a gun with me as soon as I leave the house, and I can’t see my self carrying a shotgun while bucking, running or mountain biking hahaha. I think people are paranoid about bears. 30years in bear country and never had a problem my self, I know of a few unlucky people that can’t say the same, but those incident would have had the same outcome guns or no guns, the bears came out of nowhere so no time to even react.
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Depending on the gender of the bear and season, I might want to eat one......
 
Rman said:
A heavy slug won’t penetrate a bear as well as an average rifle bullet will either, but here we are.
Not sure where the myth started that shotguns are a good choice for bear work?

R.
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I have a heck of a time shooting my 30-06 or 300 WM through dense cover under 50 yards, usually 15 to 20 yards and hitting the target. The firearms are doing double duty - whitetails and happen upon black bears. Rifles on open shooting lanes and slugs close-in. And yes the WM is probably too much for WT but will do the trick when loaded light with 150 grains and probably drop the black bears too. Make sense?
 
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ThatGuy said:
Jeepers, fellas. Such hostility...

The problem is that a number of things are all true at the same time, and some of those truths work against each other at the extremes:

Slower bullets out-penetrate faster bullets, sturdier bullets out-penetrate softer bullets, bullets with more energy out-penetrate bullets with less energy, softer bullets create better wound profiles, harder bullets create deeper wound profiles, etc, etc.

You can play the same game with external ballistics as well.

A rifle bullet that penetrates 30 or 40 inches but creates a calibre-sized wound channel is a terrible bear defense round (for obvious reasons); likewise a bullet that creates a 12 inch wide wound channel 3 inches deep (again, for obvious reasons).

Research from Fackler suggests that 12ga slugs penetrate reasonably well, although (interestingly) not with nearly as much penetration as that from a 170gr .30-30 Win (Fackler, again). Furthermore, rifled slugs do not expand well, if at all, and as they're moving at not much more than pistol-bullet speeds, they produce very narrow wound channels (~.70 Cal), albeit very deep ones.

But put all the terminal ballistics nerdery aside for a moment to examine the platform itself: you would be hard pressed to find a more appropriate short-range defensive weapon than a pump action 12ga (or a good semi). Cheap, reliable, easy to maintain, easy to procure ammo for, easy to operate, easy to train with, easy to find safe venues to train at, light, compact, reasonably high capacity ... The list goes on.

At the end of the day, a defensive weapon, from the perspective of the user, needs to be accessible, reliable, capable of being used confidently and competently, and reasonably adequate for it's purposes in a terminal-ballistics sense. Like any other firearm, if you choose a projectile that creates a broad and deep enough wound channel, and superimpose that wound channel over a part of the target's anatomy that is essential to the target's health and wellbeing, then you will have succeeded.

The 12ga shotgun is more than adequate for bear defense. There are many other weapons that are also adequate.

And now no one needs to be touchy about the subject.
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All the enthusiasm sure is entertaining, though. I like hearing all the opinions.
 
thewoodsrunner said:
I've seen 12 gauge open choked slug guns suggested for grizzly-stopping (which by the way, as with cape buffalo, is a whole different game than grizzly-hunting, and it's surprising to me how few Canadians get this, even in grizzly range. As compared to say the African countries where this sort of knowledge is general.) Apparently some slugs are tougher than others and that's what you want, you don't want a projectile that is going to mushroom, you want maximum penetration in the stopping gun. More commonly i have seen the .375 H&H or Ruger recommended. I have never seen any pro worth their salt recommend a 30 cal for grizzly safety. Not the ubiquitous .300 winmag, not the .30-06, certainly not a .30-30(!). Nor the 33's nor 35's. Recommended is .375 and up. 45-70 is often cited and i once carried one, but after seeing enough real-world examples of lousy performance on really big animals i moved 'up' to a .375H&H, which has never failed for me on the same class critters. If you go .45-70, in a modern Marlin for instance, you gotta handload to .450 Marlin specs - or get a .450 Marlin which should be fine. You want tough, heavy-for-calibre bullets for high sectional density with good frontal area (not spitzer rounds. Not fast expansion rounds.) Medium-low (highest teens) to medium velocities (22-2500) are your friend, high velocities are not. Other candidates - 9.3x62 (.366) perhaps, .404 Jeffery, i've even seen .416 Rigby suggested as not being too much when your ass is on the line with a griz incoming. Carry the right gun and carry spray, that's the word of the pros. The science is that spray is effective on griz in the high 90's percentiles. There's plenty of ol' boys out there who will tell you spray is useless, "just seasoning." Don't listen to those guys, they're only trumpeting their ignorance.
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I live in Ontario, Chances are 100% greater I'll get attacked by a Black Bear than a Grizzly.
 
DogTazmania said:
Please have a look at the images I've attached. I'm curious regarding opinions about what is most suitable in your view for large Ontario Black Bears at close range, 50 yards and under? These are just some examples of 12 Ga rounds I can actually locate and buy, here. Still learning....
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The Challenger slug will have the most penetration of all of those ..... I tested all of them.

The Challenger is a "Gualandi Borra-Proiettile" or what Ballistic Products sells as the DGS12 Dangerous Game Slug.
 
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