Bear rifle. Will 44 mag be enough?

I carry a 12 gauge Rem 870, 14 inch barrel with Federal 3 inch sabot slugs. While I've never shot a bear with one I've seen what they do to deer numerous times and confidence is high. The smoothbore won't spin that sabot slug but that won't much matter at close range. That barrel length is great because slung on your shoulder, the barrel is at shoulder height so it doesn't hang up on branches. The only thing that isn't great about it is that the round forearm is uncomfortable on your back after a while when you have it slung.
I would never shoot a bear with buckshot - I've unfortunately seen what does to a deer and it's far from clean sometimes. I have seen bear shot with 30. caliber stuff and while I'd hunt black bear with that, I would much prefer a 12 gauge for up close self defense scenarios (for any kind of bear). It needs to drop right where it is!
 
Probably an unpopular opinion but I wouldn’t bother packing a 44mag in the bush. I’d just carry bear spray and forget about the gun. Guns are useless if you don’t have it readily available. Unless you’re willing to carry it ready for action it’s not worth it.

If you are in an area that you expect to see a bear then pack a real rifle. Something with 40+ grains of powder and well over supersonic performance.
 
coleman1495 said:
Probably an unpopular opinion but I wouldn’t bother packing a 44mag in the bush. I’d just carry bear spray and forget about the gun. Guns are useless if you don’t have it readily available. Unless you’re willing to carry it ready for action it’s not worth it.

If you are in an area that you expect to see a bear then pack a real rifle. Something with 40+ grains of powder and well over supersonic performance.
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Good point, I heard stories of people spraying bear spray at themselves. I should look into how to effectively use bear spray, I just didn't think if a bear is coming close that bear spray would work.
 
Lots of calibers can take down a bear , but a 44 mag. certainly wouldn't be my first choice unless I was required to carry a revolver . Any 12 gauge with slugs will knock down a bear , and any rifle in 308 or better is good to go as well. The Canadian Rangers carried 303s for many years , and you can buy sporterized 303s anywhere for 250 bucks .
 
Skip the 44 and go to a tactical 12 gauge shotgun. Ive dumped a few ignorant ones at arms length and any slug is enough to roll there eyelashes back and fix the situation in a hurry.
 
These threads are always comical.

Last black bear I shot was at about 6 feet with a 240 gr hardcast at 800fps from a Winchester 1892 in 44mag. I happened to be pulling into my driveway and saw him quartering across the back lawn past my dog run (that had a pair of very upset dogs in it - granted, a 12 year old mini dachshund doesn’t exactly instill terror in much, but my heeler was quite excited to get out so he could grab onto a ditch pig…) as he headed for the walk in cooler at the back of my shop.

I figured I could sneak through the shop and pop out from the cooler door and run him off, and happened to have the 92 in the truck. When I opened the door quietly between the shop and cooler the bear had already peeled open the cooler door and was standing one big step in front of me. I offered him some encouraging words to leave, and he backed up a couple of steps and stood the way they do with their ass kind of down and up on their front tippy toes in the doorway with his head tipped up to look at me. When he woofed at me I shot him low in the throat. He slumped straight backwards and was immediately dead.
Didn’t quite square 6’, but was pretty fat being a September bear. He had 5 or 6 vertebrae that had been hit, but that was after about 20” of meat.
Only hears I’ve seen die faster than that one were shot with 22 centerfires.

When it comes to bear defense, an arrow held in your hand is better than fingernails that haven’t been trimmed in a few days. By the time you get all the way up to big pistol cartridges or any rifle cartridge you have transitioned from being on the defensive to going on the offensive. Any bear shot in “self defense” should be at a distance measured in single digits, or acting in a manner that strongly suggests he is going to try to eat you. And you’ll know from his body language if thats the case, same as if you are walking down the street at night and see a crackhead that is acting in a predatory manner.

And there is one thing I’ve noticed now with 43 years of bear deaths behind me, it doesn’t matter the size of the bear, if you are acting in a predatory manner towards it, they will split. If you act like prey, they will try to figure out if you can be turned into a menu item.
 
All things being equal, the heavier the bullet/slug, the better for breaking bone and penetration.
If purely for defense; aim for bone to stop and/or immobilize...worry about kill shot afterwards.

A 12 gauge is used for many reasons:
First of all is point and shoot...many only have a bead and people take less time to aim and shoot (yes, sights are more accurate, but in a pinch, the bead is enough at close range - measured in feet, not yards)
Second, is large slugs packs a whallop (mass and momentum) that helps deter the charge, even if it doesn't break big bone, or immediately kill the bear...but hitting big bone is the first concern and is way more effective...but many people with limited practice may not actually hit big bone, yet still hit the bear with some effect. But as always, shot placement matters!
Third, slugs will out penetrate shot...even 000 buckshot will not reliably penetrate even at close range. Tests on 1" plywood at 15 yards, only one pellet out of nine may fully penetrate the plywood, while even a 2 3/4" 1oz slug will completely penetrate every time.
Fourth, a pump or semi auto shotgun is quicker for follow up shots than most rifles...read this as bolt actions and single shots, as semis, pumps and levers are quicker for follow up shots. The more skill the user has, the quicker their follow up shots will be...but even experienced hunters can be rattled during a bear charge and have difficulty functioning under this high stress situation! Mental preparation for remaining calm in a situation like this is as important as the skill in handling the firearm itself!

Larger caliber rifles do pack more energy than shotguns, and thus will have an edge on penetration...but their smaller diameter bullets do not have the same frontal area, mass and momentum for more immediately dramatic effects on animals at close range, in the same manner that large diameter slug seems to. (Not saying that a heavy bullet from a 44 Mag, 45-70 or others does not work..just that it has a different impact - in the hands of calm, skilled and experienced shooter facing a defensive situation, a rifle can be very effective! It is just that most people are not this shooter in this type of defensive scenario)
(Personally, I prefer one of my larger caliber lever actions to my Rem 870 12 gauge, but I am not allowed to use a rifle in wildlife watch work anymore due to current regulatory requirements; I must use the Rem 870 12 ga. Previous to the new requirements coming into effect, I was trained and annually certified for both rifle (bolt and lever action) and shotgun; my employer at the time supplied us with all 3 types - incidentally the shotgun was typically used by everyone, and I was the only one who opted to qualify for all 3)

For the average person, the most effective firearm is going to be the one they have and can use comfortably and confidently, with proficiency. They must not just go out a try it on a stationary target once in a while, they need to practice regularly, and include practice shooting multiple times in rapid succession, including reloading, and on moving targets. When they can do so reliably, within a matter of a few seconds, and make all their shots hit the target accurately, then they can say that they have achieved proficiency with their firearm.
Practice leads to competence, which leads to confidence!
Better to be prepared and not need, then need and not be prepared!
 
I've been thinking and thinking about this...

There's a difference between a hunting rifle & a stopping rifle...

If given the opportunity to choose what I'd have in hand as a stopping rifle, out of the firearms I have specifically for bears, I'd go...

45-70, then 12 ga, then 44 Mag
 
i found packing my 14 mosberg on my shoulder was that the end of the barrell is right at head level. Just hope the safety is good and it doesn't go to ready position? Liked it but went to Marlin 45-70 and big lead bullets. have the 44 Ruger but found it didn't pack right with all the gear.
 
Gonewild said:
Skip the 44 and go to a tactical 12 gauge shotgun. Ive dumped a few ignorant ones at arms length and any slug is enough to roll there eyelashes back and fix the situation in a hurry.
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Looking at the m4 option right now or a super nova. I wanted a 14" barrel but the m4 only comes in 18.5" . But the reliability is proven.
 
The Beretta 1301 is much lighter and faster handling then the m4.
I use the 1301 comp with a 21" barrel for just about everything now and it would be my first choice for a walk in the woods where I thought I might encounter a problem bear.
After seeing bear spray fail horribly on a bear who just shook it off like dust in his eyes and kept going on with what he was doing I could never trust my well being to it. I've seen the instant and dramatic results of shotguns and rifles up close on bears and I will take a gun or sharp stick any day over spray
 
Breaking a bone will not kill bear the fish cop has no idea what he is talking about destroying fital organs will kill a bear

Heart

Lungs

Spine

Liver

To name a few places to destroy
 
That video, " guide with a 9mm", I just dont trust a 9mm hand gun for bear.

I think he got very lucky ! I also think he gives some Misleading advice.

what did you think of the video ?
 
lone ranger said:
That video, " guide with a 9mm", I just dont trust a 9mm hand gun for bear.
I think he got very lucky ! I also think he gives some Misleading advice.

what did you think of the video ?
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When I had a black bear climb up the back of the tree I was in and come around and sniff my cheek I sure would have loved to have my 9mm pistol. I had a 458wm with a 26.5" barrel while sitting in a self climbing stand that I didn't bother to tether to the tree. Fortunately the bear wasn't aggressive at all. I broke my knuckle and finger punching it in the snout. He ended up climbing back down where I eventually shot him directly under me but a 9mm under the chin would have worked perfectly I believe
 
but a 9mm under the chin would have worked perfectly I believe"

Yes it would be great, but that would be a "secondary " fire arm,...not solely depending on it.
 
lone ranger said:
That video, " guide with a 9mm", I just dont trust a 9mm hand gun for bear.
I think he got very lucky ! I also think he gives some Misleading advice.

what did you think of the video ?
Click to expand...

That encounter has come up before, can’t say I’d pick 9mm of any loading/bullet choice as a bear defense load and I’d definitely second guessing my choice of guides if he decided to bring a 9mm over his 44mag as a tool to keep clients safe.
 
9mm has one of the best penetrations f all pistol choices, people don’t realize why it’s the universal global solution. It has more velocity than many and higher sectional density. There’s an article around with successful bear defence with pistols by cartridge, the 9mm had at least 4 kills. I think the 44 mag had most but good read. Because a lot of people carry the 44 where they live. Personally I’d have a light 9mm as my option if I could carry.

There’s a great video around by a guy in Alaska with the charging bear scenario cardboard cutout on a skidoo coming at him from 40 yards. Pistols and long guns. The pistols were a far distant second to any long gun option for reliable hits in the face. Then the long guns, bolt action 30-06 only managed one shot but right in the middle of face. Then the lever action he got two shots into the face, the pump shotgun got 3 in the face and the AR .223 got 6.

So look at the top 2 there a semi auto and a pump. Now look at a semi auto shotgun where the challenger slugs in just one shot offers more Killy Factor than all 6 shots from a .223 and I bet due to recoil management you’d get at least 2 more (so 5 total) shots in that test with a semi auto shotgun. And at least 8x the Killy factor of anything you could do with an AR .223.

As for semi auto shotguns, put the new mossberg 940 pro 18.5 tac or turkey on the list, it survived the 500 round burn down test, has 1500 round cleaning intervals and cycles very fast, it’s in the league of the two Italians now but a few hundred Canadian dollars less at minimum. The front bead will be too low on the tac and impact high and is a quarter lb heavier for chrome lined barrel, the turkey pro has a rib and an awesome front site with 5 different inserts in fiber iptic colours and straight white too. Plus a 1/4 lb lighter and less alarming cool retro camo dip makes it the ultimate sleeper defence shotty. Mine weighed 7 lb 1.5 oz out of box. Once you ditch the turkey choke for Carlson extended or flush and maybe 1/2 butt spacer told get lop down to just over 13” your bare shotty is under 7 lbs. they also have something none of the others do with a cut out in receiver for reflex sites like Holosun and it’s game changer. Running Holosun eps green mrs on mine and pulled the front site off completely. With the 32 moa circle only reticle I just tested out challenger slugs at 40 yards with Carlson extended chokes IC/M/F and with IC the ctc groups for 3 shots are 1.6”-2.1”! This thing will hammer big game to 100 no problem!

Go see it Instagram at 65grendelhunters

You just have to come up with a light mount and it’s 4+1 (5 shots) as fast as you can pull the trigger of 504 gr hard slugs at ~1500-1535 fps or a total of 12,500-13,000 ft/lbs delivered in about 1 second. ;)

Some other great features of the 940 pro, 4.5 lb trigger, nice cocking indicator in the trigger guard you can feel if it’s cocked just by pushing your finner forward into the front of the trigger guard without looking, but obviously nice and easy to see when it’s cocked also. And the tang safety is a gem for left or right hands, thats a great spot for a safety on one of these! Add a blue force vickers multi-cam sling, it’s got sling studs on mag cap and butt stock, the over size bolt release and charging handle are awesome. Can you tell I like this little hammer? 2” industrial velcro and some 5 round esstac shell cards in multi-cam fit side of action and butt stock perfectly, so can load 5 and have 10 more on it ready to go (note on esstac cards, the multi-cam are mil-spec and a little more durable than the other colours, but it’s the right color for this turkey pro anyway. Oh yeah, the bird plug is just a little pencil size dowel that you can spin the mag cap on and drop in or shake out as needed for bird legalities. Pretty slick do all shotty imo...can’t think of anything I don’t like. Did I mention fully adjustable stock spacers for cast and lop etc come with it? What didn’t they think of?

I’ll be selling a bnib one as soon as I get the other one back from warranty with its new barrel with gas ports lol. Not sure how long that will take. Thes 940’s are gonna sell very well.
 
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