Bear rifle. Will 44 mag be enough?

If I had to choose a pistol caliber to hunt with or shoot a lg predator 9mm would be near the bottom of my list, I want something with lots of energy and some mass as well as speed. Not just one of the three, at minimum it would be 10mm as I prefer a semi auto but I’ve shot a couple bigger revolvers and I’d pick a 44mag or bigger. 460S&W mag is a pretty fun one, you get to shoot .45Colt, 454 Casull and .460S&W. You have a training round, 454 and 460 for bears.

9mm may penetrate but I want something that will do damage while it penetrates, there’s a good video of Buffalo bore or Lehigh 10mm fully passing through 3 gell blocks. I’m sceptical that 9mm would perform the same.

If the handgun freeze is ever reversed I’m buying a .44mag and a .460S&W, I regret not buying one. Should’ve put it on the plastic and not hesitated.
 
Have a good read of this, it’s well grounded in reality and discusses the .44 mag for hunting at different velocity ranges. The same applies to the .45-70 class cartridges, the velocity matters, and I witnessed this guiding. Both the .45-70 and .44 Mag have a handful of loads from a rifle that earn better terminal effects on game hunting, but most folks select in the wrong direction looking for more effect; heavier bullets.

I like the .44 a lot and see a lot of utility in it as an all around chambering matched to a revolver, and it’s likely the best all rounder at that.

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.44+Remington+Magnum.html
 
Have a good read of this, it’s well grounded in reality and discusses the .44 mag for hunting at different velocity ranges. The same applies to the .45-70 class cartridges, the velocity matters, and I witnessed this guiding. Both the .45-70 and .44 Mag have a handful of loads from a rifle that earn better terminal effects on game hunting, but most folks select in the wrong direction looking for more effect; heavier bullets.
part of the reason so many shooters loose interest in the 45/70 imo is their bad experiences with trying to handle 'train stopper' loads. A Marlin lever shooting .458mag-power loads is no fun, and never practical in real world.
The idea of the lever 'guide gun' was for a handy rifle with a fast action for repeatable follow-up shots to stop trouble. We choose 350 gr @~ 1800 and had no trouble getting the job done. Not sure if all of the 3-5 shots used were necessary, it just seemed appropriate at the time to keep shooting )
.....but thats a different topic, so back to the regular programming......)
 
Probably an unpopular opinion but I wouldn’t bother packing a 44mag in the bush. I’d just carry bear spray and forget about the gun. Guns are useless if you don’t have it readily available. Unless you’re willing to carry it ready for action it’s not worth it.

If you are in an area that you expect to see a bear then pack a real rifle. Something with 40+ grains of powder and well over supersonic performance.

Personally i wouldnt rely on just one or the other.

Shotguns can also shoot flares, there are non-lethal rounds and noise makers. The key thing is they can alert others to you. You have no idea whats going to happen and if you are injured you may not be able to call for help
 
9mm has one of the best penetrations f all pistol choices, people don’t realize why it’s the universal global solution. It has more velocity than many and higher sectional density. There’s an article around with successful bear defence with pistols by cartridge, the 9mm had at least 4 kills. I think the 44 mag had most but good read. Because a lot of people carry the 44 where they live. Personally I’d have a light 9mm as my option if I could carry.

There’s a great video around by a guy in Alaska with the charging bear scenario cardboard cutout on a skidoo coming at him from 40 yards. Pistols and long guns. The pistols were a far distant second to any long gun option for reliable hits in the face. Then the long guns, bolt action 30-06 only managed one shot but right in the middle of face. Then the lever action he got two shots into the face, the pump shotgun got 3 in the face and the AR .223 got 6.

So look at the top 2 there a semi auto and a pump. Now look at a semi auto shotgun where the challenger slugs in just one shot offers more Killy Factor than all 6 shots from a .223 and I bet due to recoil management you’d get at least 2 more (so 5 total) shots in that test with a semi auto shotgun. And at least 8x the Killy factor of anything you could do with an AR .223.

As for semi auto shotguns, put the new mossberg 940 pro 18.5 tac or turkey on the list, it survived the 500 round burn down test, has 1500 round cleaning intervals and cycles very fast, it’s in the league of the two Italians now but a few hundred Canadian dollars less at minimum. The front bead will be too low on the tac and impact high and is a quarter lb heavier for chrome lined barrel, the turkey pro has a rib and an awesome front site with 5 different inserts in fiber iptic colours and straight white too. Plus a 1/4 lb lighter and less alarming cool retro camo dip makes it the ultimate sleeper defence shotty. Mine weighed 7 lb 1.5 oz out of box. Once you ditch the turkey choke for Carlson extended or flush and maybe 1/2 butt spacer told get lop down to just over 13” your bare shotty is under 7 lbs. they also have something none of the others do with a cut out in receiver for reflex sites like Holosun and it’s game changer. Running Holosun eps green mrs on mine and pulled the front site off completely. With the 32 moa circle only reticle I just tested out challenger slugs at 40 yards with Carlson extended chokes IC/M/F and with IC the ctc groups for 3 shots are 1.6”-2.1”! This thing will hammer big game to 100 no problem!

Go see it Instagram at 65grendelhunters

You just have to come up with a light mount and it’s 4+1 (5 shots) as fast as you can pull the trigger of 504 gr hard slugs at ~1500-1535 fps or a total of 12,500-13,000 ft/lbs delivered in about 1 second. ;)

Some other great features of the 940 pro, 4.5 lb trigger, nice cocking indicator in the trigger guard you can feel if it’s cocked just by pushing your finner forward into the front of the trigger guard without looking, but obviously nice and easy to see when it’s cocked also. And the tang safety is a gem for left or right hands, thats a great spot for a safety on one of these! Add a blue force vickers multi-cam sling, it’s got sling studs on mag cap and butt stock, the over size bolt release and charging handle are awesome. Can you tell I like this little hammer? 2” industrial velcro and some 5 round esstac shell cards in multi-cam fit side of action and butt stock perfectly, so can load 5 and have 10 more on it ready to go (note on esstac cards, the multi-cam are mil-spec and a little more durable than the other colours, but it’s the right color for this turkey pro anyway. Oh yeah, the bird plug is just a little pencil size dowel that you can spin the mag cap on and drop in or shake out as needed for bird legalities. Pretty slick do all shotty imo...can’t think of anything I don’t like. Did I mention fully adjustable stock spacers for cast and lop etc come with it? What didn’t they think of?

I’ll be selling a bnib one as soon as I get the other one back from warranty with its new barrel with gas ports lol. Not sure how long that will take. Thes 940’s are gonna sell very well.

Why did it need to go in for warrenty?
 
Is the 45-70 to much gun for you?

Is the 44 mag not enough gun?

If you have your heart set on a lever gun then the answer just might be the 454 Casull.

View attachment 776747

Considering the existence of trapdoor Springfield loads, Buffalo bore loads, and everything in between I never understood the idea that 45-70 could be too much gun.

I wish 454C lever guns were more common though. Cool cartridge in it's own right and most of em work with 45colt too.
 
Oh man. Bears are stupidly easy to kill if you do a couple things right. Use a real rifle and use bullets that would rip a nasty one on a deer. Well three things; you might want to shoot it somewhere in the front third of the bear. What you don’t want is low velocity lame ass crap like 44’s, 45/70s and 12 gauges. With our traplines we can kill unlimited bears, and we do. A 12 gauge slug on a good day is like a lightly loaded muzzleloader. Big whoop.

In the otherhand, an STW with 180 Bergers will shut a bear off like a light. So will a 300 Win with 180
Ballistic tips and a 30-06 with whatever 150s are on sale.

Tour game warden friends can shove their 12 gauges up their keister. Soeed kills, end of story.
 
Why did it need to go in for warrenty?

barrel didn't have gas ports drilled into it, so it was a single shot, perfect otherwise lol, guess the guy on the line got distracted and dropped one he didn't drill into the completed bucket? I dunno, I haven't seen anyone else mention the problem as in a batch of them that went out that missed this step...seems like a one off, sh1t happens, not a huge deal, it will come back with a new barrel or they will drill the gas ports in and I'll resell it, I didn't want to wait so I bought another and it's banging as it should be
 
Oh man. Bears are stupidly easy to kill if you do a couple things right. Use a real rifle and use bullets that would rip a nasty one on a deer. Well three things; you might want to shoot it somewhere in the front third of the bear. What you don’t want is low velocity lame ass crap like 44’s, 45/70s and 12 gauges. With our traplines we can kill unlimited bears, and we do. A 12 gauge slug on a good day is like a lightly loaded muzzleloader. Big whoop.

In the otherhand, an STW with 180 Bergers will shut a bear off like a light. So will a 300 Win with 180
Ballistic tips and a 30-06 with whatever 150s are on sale.

Tour game warden friends can shove their 12 gauges up their keister. Soeed kills, end of story.

I believe that also. But are there reliable 5 shot semi-auto's available and that are short and handy in centerfires for us commies? Would love to see a browning bar 308 18-20" stainless. Are the shotties also a little more versatile and weather friendly? Some bird shot for the birds, some buckshot for predator calling, some hard slugs for defence? Some primitive seasons inclusions? No arguing the Killy factor of actual rifle cartridges here, just what other options does one have if he wants 5 as fast as he can pull trigger?
 
I believe that also. But are there reliable 5 shot semi-auto's available and that are short and handy in centerfires for us commies? Would love to see a browning bar 308 18-20" stainless. Are the shotties also a little more versatile and weather friendly? Some bird shot for the birds, some buckshot for predator calling, some hard slugs for defence? Some primitive seasons inclusions? No arguing the Killy factor of actual rifle cartridges here, just what other options does one have if he wants 5 as fast as he can pull trigger?

Savage 99 in 308. Pretty smooth cycling from when I handled one. Be nice to find one
 
I believe that also. But are there reliable 5 shot semi-auto's available and that are short and handy in centerfires for us commies? Would love to see a browning bar 308 18-20" stainless. Are the shotties also a little more versatile and weather friendly? Some bird shot for the birds, some buckshot for predator calling, some hard slugs for defence? Some primitive seasons inclusions? No arguing the Killy factor of actual rifle cartridges here, just what other options does one have if he wants 5 as fast as he can pull trigger?

Iirc you can get a BAR in 300win mag, they even make it in a LH version.

https://www.reliablegun.com/brownin...loy-receiver-matte-black-composite-stock-3rds
 
Oh man. Bears are stupidly easy to kill if you do a couple things right. Use a real rifle and use bullets that would rip a nasty one on a deer. Well three things; you might want to shoot it somewhere in the front third of the bear. What you don’t want is low velocity lame ass crap like 44’s, 45/70s and 12 gauges. With our traplines we can kill unlimited bears, and we do. A 12 gauge slug on a good day is like a lightly loaded muzzleloader. Big whoop.

In the otherhand, an STW with 180 Bergers will shut a bear off like a light. So will a 300 Win with 180
Ballistic tips and a 30-06 with whatever 150s are on sale.

Tour game warden friends can shove their 12 gauges up their keister. Soeed kills, end of story.

You clearly have even less patience left for the big hard bullets, going slow on bears stuff than I do. Life’s full of uncomfortable truths and preconception busting experiences, one of them is than a .270, 7, or .300 is far more of a big bear stopper than a big fat 550grs going half the speed… be that a slug or a .45-70. A .243 is too, truth be told.
 
Not a bad suggestion. The R92 is a very light and handy rifle even with a 20" barrel. 240grns at 2400fps or 300 at 2100. I trusted the Casull for Kodiak in Alaska, I would trust it for any bear down here as well, obviously.


What kind of sights is that on your R92 and do you like it?

I put a Burris scout scope on my R 92 , it works but I find it kinda bulky.
 
What kind of sights is that on your R92 and do you like it?

I put a Burris scout scope on my R 92 , it works but I find it kinda bulky.

Holosun 507c with ACSS reticle. I love it honestly, the iron were terrible and a scout scope added enough weight i I didnt like it. It's light enough it is barely noticeable. Last thing I want to do with that rifle is weigh it down.
 
I believe that also. But are there reliable 5 shot semi-auto's available and that are short and handy in centerfires for us commies? Would love to see a browning bar 308 18-20" stainless. Are the shotties also a little more versatile and weather friendly? Some bird shot for the birds, some buckshot for predator calling, some hard slugs for defence? Some primitive seasons inclusions? No arguing the Killy factor of actual rifle cartridges here, just what other options does one have if he wants 5 as fast as he can pull trigger?

The benelli R1 can be had in 300 win mag with a 20in barrel but I doubt has 5rd mags.
The Sauer 303 was certainly available in 300 win mag with a 20in barrel (I had one and sold it) and 5 round mags, as well as 9.3x62 with a 18.5in oanf20in barrels though they are pricy.

I have a pair of h&k slb2000 in 9.3x62. 20in barrel and 5 Rd detachable mags. Never had a FTF or FTE. I take one of them with an LPVO when I'm in bear country. I've seen slb2000s pop up on the EE in 300 win mag as well. I think they also had a 20in barrel.
A while back there were a few Verney-Carron pump action center fires available (I want to say from tradeex) with short barrels. I picked up a 9.3x62 with 19 (?) in barrel and 3rd detachable mag and amazing battue sights. All the other calibers except 9.3x62 had 5rd mags.
 
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