Just took my 22-250 stock off for the first time. It's an old Parker hale. Anyways it appears the barrel is bedded right to the very end of the stock. Just wondering if this was a Parker hale thing or somebody along the way thought it was a good idea. Was this done to improve accuracy? Are there advantages over a free floating barrel in some guns? I think I'm just going to sand it down until I get some clearance.
Bedded barrel?
- Thread starter Collint2005
- Start date
NULA ( a semi custom from the US bulit by Forbes) rifles are bedded full length and shoot very well but most rifles only have the action bedded as well as the first inch or two of the barrel. If it shoots OK now I'd leave it alone unless the POI changes with temperature or humidity.
Bedding the full length of the barrel usually does not produce the best accuracy. Point of impact changes frequently and groups are not small... that has been my experience. Even bedding 5 inches of the barrel where it is tapered can lean to vertical stringing when the barrel heats up.
It tends to make a light hunting gun a bit stronger but as the skinny barrel heats the groups will move as per guntech. Okay if you realise what to expect and only shoot three shot groups, which is okay for a hunting gun.
Republic of Alberta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- ,location, location
Also depends what the stock is made of. If the stock is a piece of wood that warps and bends as the seasons change you may have POI changes. If it is a floppy plastic stock you may get POI changes depending on how you hold the rifle and "bend" the stock.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Seem to remember reading Ross Seyfried (sp?) article about 100 + year old rifles with fully bedded barrel that was still exactly sighted in. Older gun-making books (Howe, for example) seem to suggest that properly cured stocks (as in, cured for years) that were properly sealed and then "fully bedded", was the "correct" way to produce a finest quality firearm.
When push comes to shove, when it's done right, it works well.
There are two really important issues that need to be addressed by the stock maker.
One, is that he has to use straight grain, perfectly seasoned wood. Wood that is bone dry and perfectly sealed is a must. If it isn't, the heat from the barrel, will cause the remnants of fluids in the stock to expand and warp, causing exactly the issues mentioned above by tiriaq.
Two, the bedding has to be as close to perfect as possible, without any play. If the bedding is to loose or the wood is to soft, the recoil will either cause enough movement to rub off the sealant or the wood will compress from recoil. This leads to all sorts of problems as well.
I had a lovely old Mannlicher with a full stock in 6.5x54. It shot like a dream, first time every time. Because the rifle was a light recoiler, it didn't require a heavy stock. I took it on a mountain hunt, where we used horses. At the first opportunity that jughead got, she managed to break off the butt against a tree.
To make a long story short, I had some wood that I felt would be a good replacement for that stock. WRONG. The piece of dark Circassian Walnut had been stored in what I considered to be a warm, dry environment for over 20 years, before I got to it and for another 20 years before I thought about tackling it. The grain had a very slight curve to it exactly where the wrist would be and the rest was almost dead straight.
I spent almost an hour every evening one winter carving this thing to shape and inletting it meticulously. I was so proud of my creation, I showed it off to everyone. Of course, most people couldn't have cared less. I am a gun nut you know and should be watched carefully.
During the whole procedure, I made sure the stock was sealed. It felt and carved like it was completely dry. It certainly was one of the hardest pieces of wood I had ever tackled. When it was finished, I did my first checkering job. I was pleased. The rock hard wood dulled the cutters pretty quickly. Not having any real experience, other than the odd touch up job, I didn't really know any better. It wasn't the wood dulling the blades as much as it was the pumice stone finish and the dried natural resins still in the wood.
These resins, are the culprits. As the barrel heats up, the resins will slightly soften and expand, causing the stock to very slightly warp. Setting the rifle in bright sunlight will cause a similar result. Not only that, the resin isn't that hard in the first place and the recoil of the rifle quickly pounds it out, causing more distortion of groups.
Much of the new wood that is available is way better than the piece of wood I had selected without knowing what I was looking for. It wouldn't have really been fit for anything but a rimfire rifle.
The recent spate of laminates would be pretty hard to beat and likely make very good full length stocks and may even get better with full length bedding.
I have an old Remington 721, chambered in 30-06 that is carved from a nice piece of Birdseye Maple. It has grain going in every direction and is glass bedded all the way through, from the rear of the receiver to the muzzle. It holds zero very well, under all conditions. It is a very stable platform. Relatively light as well. Whoever carved it and inletted it must have used a hatchet and hunting knife. The butcher job isn't visible, until you take the rifle out of it though and the darn thing is absolutely dependable to remain consistent.
Here is the reason why the stock on this rifle with IMHO is an inferior wood works where my self judged masterpiece failed. The wood came out of the section of the tree that was close to the top of one of the larger branches and above the crotch. The capillaries were drained, either before the tree was cut or were steamed out and the wood was allowed to dry without any pitch/resin captured in their centers. Such a little thing. Only takes about a month of steaming and another 10 or 12 years of careful drying to get it right.
That's why laminates are so good, they use the stresses, along with the glue to work against each other and keep the stock stable.
Those lovely little Ruger RSI rifles seem to get it right on a regular basis. Someone there, knows their stuff.
There are two really important issues that need to be addressed by the stock maker.
One, is that he has to use straight grain, perfectly seasoned wood. Wood that is bone dry and perfectly sealed is a must. If it isn't, the heat from the barrel, will cause the remnants of fluids in the stock to expand and warp, causing exactly the issues mentioned above by tiriaq.
Two, the bedding has to be as close to perfect as possible, without any play. If the bedding is to loose or the wood is to soft, the recoil will either cause enough movement to rub off the sealant or the wood will compress from recoil. This leads to all sorts of problems as well.
I had a lovely old Mannlicher with a full stock in 6.5x54. It shot like a dream, first time every time. Because the rifle was a light recoiler, it didn't require a heavy stock. I took it on a mountain hunt, where we used horses. At the first opportunity that jughead got, she managed to break off the butt against a tree.
To make a long story short, I had some wood that I felt would be a good replacement for that stock. WRONG. The piece of dark Circassian Walnut had been stored in what I considered to be a warm, dry environment for over 20 years, before I got to it and for another 20 years before I thought about tackling it. The grain had a very slight curve to it exactly where the wrist would be and the rest was almost dead straight.
I spent almost an hour every evening one winter carving this thing to shape and inletting it meticulously. I was so proud of my creation, I showed it off to everyone. Of course, most people couldn't have cared less. I am a gun nut you know and should be watched carefully.
During the whole procedure, I made sure the stock was sealed. It felt and carved like it was completely dry. It certainly was one of the hardest pieces of wood I had ever tackled. When it was finished, I did my first checkering job. I was pleased. The rock hard wood dulled the cutters pretty quickly. Not having any real experience, other than the odd touch up job, I didn't really know any better. It wasn't the wood dulling the blades as much as it was the pumice stone finish and the dried natural resins still in the wood.
These resins, are the culprits. As the barrel heats up, the resins will slightly soften and expand, causing the stock to very slightly warp. Setting the rifle in bright sunlight will cause a similar result. Not only that, the resin isn't that hard in the first place and the recoil of the rifle quickly pounds it out, causing more distortion of groups.
Much of the new wood that is available is way better than the piece of wood I had selected without knowing what I was looking for. It wouldn't have really been fit for anything but a rimfire rifle.
The recent spate of laminates would be pretty hard to beat and likely make very good full length stocks and may even get better with full length bedding.
I have an old Remington 721, chambered in 30-06 that is carved from a nice piece of Birdseye Maple. It has grain going in every direction and is glass bedded all the way through, from the rear of the receiver to the muzzle. It holds zero very well, under all conditions. It is a very stable platform. Relatively light as well. Whoever carved it and inletted it must have used a hatchet and hunting knife. The butcher job isn't visible, until you take the rifle out of it though and the darn thing is absolutely dependable to remain consistent.
Here is the reason why the stock on this rifle with IMHO is an inferior wood works where my self judged masterpiece failed. The wood came out of the section of the tree that was close to the top of one of the larger branches and above the crotch. The capillaries were drained, either before the tree was cut or were steamed out and the wood was allowed to dry without any pitch/resin captured in their centers. Such a little thing. Only takes about a month of steaming and another 10 or 12 years of careful drying to get it right.
That's why laminates are so good, they use the stresses, along with the glue to work against each other and keep the stock stable.
Those lovely little Ruger RSI rifles seem to get it right on a regular basis. Someone there, knows their stuff.
Last edited:
Free floating a barrel guarantees nothing. Some rifles just don't like it either. However, no barrel should ever be completely bedded. The only way to tell if a rifle likes a floated barrel is to try it. No contact from the chamber area to the end of the stock.
If that doesn't improve accuracy or, more importantly, make group sizes consistent, putting a pressure point back in isn't hard. It's just a wee spot of bedding material(roughly an inch diameter), about an inch pr so aft of the end of the forestock. Do not forget the release agent. Guy came in the shop long ago with a rifle his brother in law had bedded, just like yours, only without using the release agent. Takes a chisel to get the stock off.
All that being said, if it shoots well as it is, don't fix it.
If that doesn't improve accuracy or, more importantly, make group sizes consistent, putting a pressure point back in isn't hard. It's just a wee spot of bedding material(roughly an inch diameter), about an inch pr so aft of the end of the forestock. Do not forget the release agent. Guy came in the shop long ago with a rifle his brother in law had bedded, just like yours, only without using the release agent. Takes a chisel to get the stock off.
All that being said, if it shoots well as it is, don't fix it.
Easier way to break-out glassbedding compound is just to dump the thing in the deep-freeze for 24 hours. After that, one smart rap with a hammer usually breaks them free.
SOME rifles, however, will DEMAND full-length bedding of the barrel. My late shooting buddy did a Moisin-Nagant 91/30 with full-length bedding. We spent the next 4 years, summer and winter, putting 3-shot groups downrange. Temperatures were from 36 below to 95 above. Ammo was Match-grade handloads, sights were original Russian iron. The holes were all on a 3x5 card. Range was 325 yards by the surveyor's chain. Prior to the bedding job, that rifle wouldn't hit DIDDLY at more than 100.
Hope this helps.
SOME rifles, however, will DEMAND full-length bedding of the barrel. My late shooting buddy did a Moisin-Nagant 91/30 with full-length bedding. We spent the next 4 years, summer and winter, putting 3-shot groups downrange. Temperatures were from 36 below to 95 above. Ammo was Match-grade handloads, sights were original Russian iron. The holes were all on a 3x5 card. Range was 325 yards by the surveyor's chain. Prior to the bedding job, that rifle wouldn't hit DIDDLY at more than 100.
Hope this helps.
SomebodyTookMyName
CGN Regular
- Location
- Central Saskatchewan
My personal preference is to have a free-floating barrel so I can shoot from all kinds of positions and off shooting sticks/bipods, with or without sling tension. Most of the time, full-length or pressure-bedded guns will change POI depending on the pressure put on the forend. If there's pressure on the forend, there's pressure on the barrel and that changes things.
I've found a couple rifles that wouldn't shoot without pressure bedding- I don't have those rifles anymore... but I'm the picky type.
But like everyone else has said, if it shoots well, and it's not gonna be a serious long range gun- leave it! No need to mess with old guns when you could just buy more
I've found a couple rifles that wouldn't shoot without pressure bedding- I don't have those rifles anymore... but I'm the picky type.
But like everyone else has said, if it shoots well, and it's not gonna be a serious long range gun- leave it! No need to mess with old guns when you could just buy more
