Beginner help

4n2t0 said:
Is it possible? Yes. Do most? Not from what I can tell.

Again, your need for bulk ammo should decide what press is right for you. See post #9.
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I do my precision .308 reloading on a Dillon 550. I see no reason I would not do it on My 650 , if I needed a 1000 of it.
I am using my Redding competition die instead of the Dillon die and a mod to remove all play in the head to get consistent bullet seating.
Was doing all my .308 on a single stage and moving the the 550 did not change the quality, consistency and accuracy of my reload,the 550 just make it faster.

Below is the link for the clamping system that I also use on the 650.
http://uniquetek.com/product/T1230
 
Janeau said:
I do my precision .308 reloading on a Dillon 550. I see no reason I would not do it on My 650 , if I needed a 1000 of it.
I am using my Redding competition die instead of the Dillon die and a mod to remove all play in the head to get consistent bullet seating.
Was doing all my .308 on a single stage and moving the the 550 did not change the quality, consistency and accuracy of my reload,the 550 just make it faster.

Below is the link for the clamping system that I also use on the 650.
http://uniquetek.com/product/T1230
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So...

4n2t0 said:
Is it possible? Yes. Do most? Not from what I can tell.
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laker415 said:
Why? If you're willing to spend the money on 2 progressives( 1 being for precision), why not get the 750 and a Forster coax for your precision rounds?
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As someone that runs a 650 for regular non precision stuff (ie 223 & 9mm) and a Coax for precision these ^^^ are wise words.
 
NathanM said:
I would like to get into reloading for 9mm 5.56 and .308.

Here is my question for 9mm and 5.56 i want to reload for bulk. Should i get a progressive reloader like the dillon xl750? Or start off with a single stage press kit?
.308 will be precision round so a single stage or could i use a progressive reloader?

I am all about buy once cry once
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I would suggest a single stage press like a rock chucker or the like. You need to learn about reloading before the jump to a 550 or 650. Once you have everything sorted, you can upgrade for volume sake later but you will find you retain the single stage for certain tasks or applications depending on your needs. I would never get rid of my RC, it along with all the other bits you need to load a single stage, supports your journey to progressive or semi progressive. The advantage of the single stage, is you do ONE activity at a time IE de prime. Give you time to inspect rounds, and learn about issues for each step. I would never forego my experiences albeit slow on the single stage in favour of immediately going to the 650 for example.

Take your time...learn, then you will know when it is time to up your game.
 
Morpheus32 said:
I would suggest a single stage press like a rock chucker or the like. You need to learn about reloading before the jump to a 550 or 650. Once you have everything sorted, you can upgrade for volume sake later but you will find you retain the single stage for certain tasks or applications depending on your needs. I would never get rid of my RC, it along with all the other bits you need to load a single stage, supports your journey to progressive or semi progressive. The advantage of the single stage, is you do ONE activity at a time IE de prime. Give you time to inspect rounds, and learn about issues for each step. I would never forego my experiences albeit slow on the single stage in favour of immediately going to the 650 for example.

Take your time...learn, then you will know when it is time to up your game.
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It is wasted money to buy a single stage press.
The Dillon 550 allow to do one round at the time if needed. Reloading is no magic -on a 500 when you are adjusted - this is it. On a single stage you have to switch dies - add powder in some way..on a 550 it’s all done in one head - one time adjust. No findling with powder measure. Less handling and switching is safer.

It’s indexed manually so it will do one operation at the time if wished. Exactly like a single stage.
Reloading even 100 rounds on single stage press is the way to discourage anybody from reloading. That advise of buying a single stage press is a very old way of approaching reloading-dating when only a box of 50 was shot at the time.
Now when 100 rounds + by range visit is almost the norm, a single stage have noting to offer, be in learning reloading or ease of use.

Reloading is easy. I did start - at least - 25 new guy reloading on a 550, and all were pumping quality ammo in less than 2 hours. This taking into account how to set up the press -safety - adjustment of dies and basic maintenance.

In the old days, hand tools, the single stage press was what was offered for reloading - then came the turret and the progressive press, manually indexed and thereafter auto indexing.

Reloading was learned in book or through a buddy. Today, with all those video tutorial it is easier than ever to get good info and get on board of reloading good - safe ammo.
 
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Morpheus32 said:
I would suggest a single stage press like a rock chucker or the like. You need to learn about reloading before the jump to a 550 or 650. Once you have everything sorted, you can upgrade for volume sake later but you will find you retain the single stage for certain tasks or applications depending on your needs. I would never get rid of my RC, it along with all the other bits you need to load a single stage, supports your journey to progressive or semi progressive. The advantage of the single stage, is you do ONE activity at a time IE de prime. Give you time to inspect rounds, and learn about issues for each step. I would never forego my experiences albeit slow on the single stage in favour of immediately going to the 650 for example.

Take your time...learn, then you will know when it is time to up your game.
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You don't need to start on a single stage. If you want to make volume, go ahead with a progressive.

There are plenty of good reasons to acquire a single stage. "Learning" on it knowing full well you're not gonna use it as soon as you get a progressive is not one of them. Anyone telling you that you need to start on a single-stage is literally insulting your intelligence. At least it would be insulting to mine, and to most people I know. I don't know you, so I'll leave it up to you to figure out how smart you are.
 
VinnyQC said:
You don't need to start on a single stage. If you want to make volume, go ahead with a progressive.

There are plenty of good reasons to acquire a single stage. "Learning" on it knowing full well you're not gonna use it as soon as you get a progressive is not one of them. Anyone telling you that you need to start on a single-stage is literally insulting your intelligence. At least it would be insulting to mine, and to most people I know. I don't know you, so I'll leave it up to you to figure out how smart you are.
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If you have a single stage and progressive then it probably makes sense to start on the single stage. I say that as someone who owns both.

I will also say that I got the progressive first and learned on it. There are more moving parts but if you go slow and understand whats going on then there is no reason to fear a progressive as a beginner.
 
Sniffer said:
If you have a single stage and progressive then it probably makes sense to start on the single stage. I say that as someone who owns both.

I will also say that I got the progressive first and learned on it. There are more moving parts but if you go slow and understand whats going on then there is no reason to fear a progressive as a beginner.
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I started with a Hornady AP and love it. Sniffer is 100% correct, if you just treat it like a single stage while learning and do one thing at a time it will give you the experience to eventually put it all together.
APs definitely have more of a learning curve in regard to powder measure, etc. I still pull about every 2nd round to check for dimensions, seating depth, powder weight, but that's also because I'm new and paranoid.

Also instead of 2 presses I'd say your money might be better spent on things like a prep station, wet tumbler, pocket swagger (at least if you're using 223 range brass), and peripherals. Maybe if you're experienced you need less of the specialized prep work tools but I've personally found them invaluable.
 
Lol lots of different opinions. I am a fast learner and mechanically inclined and not the kind that can buy something learn it in a few hours or few days and cant progress up or upgrade without spending more money on a new press to meet my needs. I rather spend the money once and learn on something that meets my demands.

So my final decision is on the dillon lx750
 
Nathan, I lost track of your thread.

You CAN load precision rifle on a auto indexing 750 but it would require a few extra steps and some extra thinking about what you're doing and how to pass the cases through the press. Plus as others pointed out the 650 and 750 need all the add on options that jack the price WAY up in a hurry. The $870 only buys you the raw press as was noted.

I don't doubt that some of the guys here can put through 500/hr of 9mm on a 550. But not me. I don't preload a bunch of primer tubes like I suspect they do. Instead I use the need to pick up primers before carrying on to take a breather. So my own production rate on my 550 of around 350/hr for something like 9mm includes stopping every 10 to 12 minutes to pick up and load the press with another 100 primers. And every couple of hundred rounds I stop and put the loaded rounds into ammo cases or CAREFULLY pour them into bulk containers if my cases are full. And that's part of my lower rate of around 350/hr.

You mentioned that you're OK with around 300 to 350 per hour for production of 9mm and 5.56. If that's the case why do you think you need a 650 or 750? Add to this that while these bigger presses can load more ammo that they cost more to make them that way. And a Dillon case feeder is one helluva noisy thing to have running right beside your ears ! ! ! Peaceful and serene during loading is not an option if you want to equip and get the rapid production out of a 650 or 750.

I and a few others also mentioned how easy it is to use the 550 either in full on progressive or by interrupting the cycle as a sort of single stage press. That still applies. If you're a bit tight for room a 550 could be the "One Press to Rule Them All".

Again consider YOUR volume needs and YOUR space for a working area.

A lot of us, me included, said that getting a single and learning is a good idea. But if you're strapped for room you could do it all on a 550 by just not using it as a progressive until you're ready. The same does apply to a 650 or 750. But again do you NEED that volume per hour to justify the added cost and complexity?

Some more numbers for you to ponder...…

I shoot around 4K combined of .38 and .357 loaded to .38 power per year for my cowboy action. Add to that another 4K of .38 and 9mm for other matches locally to me. Oh, and around another 1500 each of .45ACP and .44-40. And a couple of thousand of 9mm for days when I feel like some semi auto fun through the year. There's a bunch of .22 in there as well but we don't reload for that....

So basically I'm talking about 10 to 12K of ammo to last me the year. And perhaps a couple of thousand more in the future since my ever failing IDPA and ICORE scores are insisting that I should go out and actually practice..... So that may rise to more like 15 to 17K in the years to come.

I load all this an hour here and an hour there at around 300 to 500 a day over the course of a month to month and a half during the cold wet times on my 550. Then I hardly touch the press for the rest of the year. I've thought about a 650 here and there but the only effect would be to cut that time down to getting everything loaded in 3 to 4 weeks of casual sessions and then it would sit. The 550 already sits idle for enough time as it is. I don't need to spend more to make ammo faster so the press can sit idle for even longer periods.... My 550 has been serving me well for around 15 years now and I don't see replacing it. It'll serve me just fine to the end of my shooting days.... Even with the addition of some practice ammo.

So how much per year do you shoot our would you shoot if you were reloading so it was cheaper to shoot? Use that number and think about how many hours on each style of press it would take to satisfy your needs.
 
BCRider said:
Nathan, I lost track of your thread.

You CAN load precision rifle on a auto indexing 750 but it would require a few extra steps and some extra thinking about what you're doing and how to pass the cases through the press. Plus as others pointed out the 650 and 750 need all the add on options that jack the price WAY up in a hurry. The $870 only buys you the raw press as was noted.

I don't doubt that some of the guys here can put through 500/hr of 9mm on a 550. But not me. I don't preload a bunch of primer tubes like I suspect they do. Instead I use the need to pick up primers before carrying on to take a breather. So my own production rate on my 550 of around 350/hr for something like 9mm includes stopping every 10 to 12 minutes to pick up and load the press with another 100 primers. And every couple of hundred rounds I stop and put the loaded rounds into ammo cases or CAREFULLY pour them into bulk containers if my cases are full. And that's part of my lower rate of around 350/hr.

You mentioned that you're OK with around 300 to 350 per hour for production of 9mm and 5.56. If that's the case why do you think you need a 650 or 750? Add to this that while these bigger presses can load more ammo that they cost more to make them that way. And a Dillon case feeder is one helluva noisy thing to have running right beside your ears ! ! ! Peaceful and serene during loading is not an option if you want to equip and get the rapid production out of a 650 or 750.

I and a few others also mentioned how easy it is to use the 550 either in full on progressive or by interrupting the cycle as a sort of single stage press. That still applies. If you're a bit tight for room a 550 could be the "One Press to Rule Them All".

Again consider YOUR volume needs and YOUR space for a working area.

A lot of us, me included, said that getting a single and learning is a good idea. But if you're strapped for room you could do it all on a 550 by just not using it as a progressive until you're ready. The same does apply to a 650 or 750. But again do you NEED that volume per hour to justify the added cost and complexity?

Some more numbers for you to ponder...…

I shoot around 4K combined of .38 and .357 loaded to .38 power per year for my cowboy action. Add to that another 4K of .38 and 9mm for other matches locally to me. Oh, and around another 1500 each of .45ACP and .44-40. And a couple of thousand of 9mm for days when I feel like some semi auto fun through the year. There's a bunch of .22 in there as well but we don't reload for that....

So basically I'm talking about 10 to 12K of ammo to last me the year. And perhaps a couple of thousand more in the future since my ever failing IDPA and ICORE scores are insisting that I should go out and actually practice..... So that may rise to more like 15 to 17K in the years to come.

I load all this an hour here and an hour there at around 300 to 500 a day over the course of a month to month and a half during the cold wet times on my 550. Then I hardly touch the press for the rest of the year. I've thought about a 650 here and there but the only effect would be to cut that time down to getting everything loaded in 3 to 4 weeks of casual sessions and then it would sit. The 550 already sits idle for enough time as it is. I don't need to spend more to make ammo faster so the press can sit idle for even longer periods.... My 550 has been serving me well for around 15 years now and I don't see replacing it. It'll serve me just fine to the end of my shooting days.... Even with the addition of some practice ammo.

So how much per year do you shoot our would you shoot if you were reloading so it was cheaper to shoot? Use that number and think about how many hours on each style of press it would take to satisfy your needs.
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My work bench is and L shape 64' x 35' and 73' x 35' so i have tons of room.

I shoot 200 rounds of 9mm and 100-200 rounds of 556 at the range, i go 2-3 times a month plus 100-150 for idpa depending on the match and that is once a month. Plus i am planning to do cqb matches and multi gun matches. 308 i havent shot yet but i would like to have 500-1000 on hand for when i start to shoot this summer. Eventually i would like to get into 300blackout, maybe 458 socom, 338lm and 50bmg.

I dont mind spending the money for the dillon add ons, cause i know it will benefit me. I wouldnt buy all add ons at once but the main necessities and throughout the year buy everything else.

What noise? Lol when you have 2 kids running around upstairs with the dog.

The main reason i am getting into reloading is because it is hard to find 147gr in 9mm and 556 i would like to shoot 62gr plus its not cheap to buy 1000rnds plus of each a month.

I work construction and have a family so i only have 1 day a week which is Saturday afternoon/evening to reload. Unless i have a rain day/ bad weather then that adds a day or half.
 
The numbers you're quoting in this last post would appear to support the idea of a 650 with a case feeder and possibly a bullet feeder. I'm sure that the two young'uns means that you are limited on time that can be spent for reloading. So more ammo per hour would be a good thing.

Folks advise against a progressive for starting because of the risk of messing up all the processes and ending up with squibs or double charges. Both are bad. But in your case a progressive is the only sensible way to go. And from this last post more than justified by the amount of ammo you shoot and what I'm sure is limited shop time given the family situation.

Just go slow and careful at first and don't be in a hurry to speed up until you're producing good ammo at a snail's pace and develop the moves and points that need inspecting for each pull of the lever.

For example I make it a point to check that the primer left the sizing station with the casing after each indexing of the shell plate. It's just where I look to check this. I also look and listen for any sign of other things going bad and I'm watching for any split casings all the time.

With a 650 or 750 there's a little more justification for getting a single stage for your serious accuracy rifle loading. Neither of those will easily adapt to operating in a good single stage simulation sort of way if buried under a case and bullet feeder. A decent single stage is pretty basic. So while I wouldn't suggest you get the very cheapest you don't need to go crazy on the cost either. Well, not unless you want to and it won't take money away from other living expenses.
 
Well, yes they are right. You CAN. But for a few reasons I consider valid I prefer to do my slow paced accuracy rifle loading on my single stage.

Reasons include not needing a caliber conversion and additional spare die plate. Around $100C for a 650 or 750 caliber conversion currently. So only a couple of kits and you can buy a pretty nice single stage. And that's before you buy a spare die plate or two.

On top of that I prefer to decap the old brass first without sizing THEN clean. Putting clean and freshly lubed brass through the sizing die is just a better option. Again this CAN be done on a 650 or 750 for those familiar with them. But I just prefer doing it more out in the open on my single stage.

There's some really nice heavy duty singles out there but in the end I opted for a Hornady with the breech lock bushings that make switching dies fast and consistent. So that's a big plus for me. Now since that time I must admit to drooling over some of the heavy duty singles. But really my Hornady does just fine.

If you do opt for some other brand without a breech style I strongly recommend the Hornady split adjustment nuts that pinch lock around the thread. If you opt for the option of screw in dies these lockable nuts ensure that they don't shift and will seat consistently and hold your adjustments. You can buy those Hornady nuts separately in bulk too. A nice option for any screw in based press or for the Forster press that uses plug in dies with the nuts acting as motion stops. Keep it in mind as you're shopping.

If you buy a press other than Hornady and if it comes with the larger size thread for large dies and uses a bushing for the 7/8" standard dies then you may want to know that bulk packs of 10 Hornady breech lock bushings come with an adapter that screws into the larger thread size in the press.

Admittedly I've gotten use to the rapid switching of the breech lock system. I've certainly drank the Hornady Koolaid on this one feature. But it does work for me and I would not buy another single that could not be adapted to use these bushings. Take that for what you will.

Later on too if you find a need to break down some ammo with a collet style puller a good single stage again will serve well. It's just easier to work around a single than to work with a big assembly of a larger size progressive. Basically however you reload having a single around does have its place and will prove to be handy for some things that the progressive CAN do but which end up easier on the single. Not to mention that if you do your accuracy rifle loads on the single you don't need to break down the progressive for what is often a short batch of loading.

I'm lucky enough that I could buy pretty much whatever I want. But it would only be for the BLING factor. My 550 serves ME very well for my needs. And having a single stage alongside covers off the way I prefer to load my accuracy rifle.

I'm not trying to say buy this or that. But I would say that from your last post above with the amount of ammo and what I'm sure is a desire to spend time with the family that if you can spare the cash that a somewhat faster progressive sitting alongside a decently handy single stage would very likely serve your needs as well.

That's a fair bit of rambling around but as you start to shop around for options I hope it gives you an insight on making your own decisions.

It's a big outlay at first. There's no doubt about that. But after 15 years of reloading I figure I paid off the cost of all the gear at around year 5 to 7 in terms of cost per 50 rounds saved vs buying factory ammo. Since then it's not only been a significant savings on ammo (at a cost in time of course) but let me work with calibers that are simply not common. Namely .38-55 for my single shot peep sight rifles and more recently .44-40 for my cowboy action shooting. Also I load my own black powder rifle rounds for times when I shoot cap and ball pistols in some of the cowboy action events with the .44-40 in the rifle. And black powder shot shells from my side by side.... I've never seen the second target. Just move over, pull the trigger and hope... :d

Cheers
 
I appreciate your input and you are not rambling lol. Plus trying to find a dillon 750 in canada is not easy, they are sold out everywhere. Now deciding if i should go with dillon 550 or a rcbs for dedicated .308 press
 
I think that the single stage to start advice is the best advice for someone starting out on reloading. I certainly wouldn't say that you can't start out on a progressive or treat it like a single stage press but I really think that you'll have a better grasp of reloading if you start single. An RCBS Rock Chucker kit is very reasonably priced and once you get it you'll soon realise that to have a really good reloading set up you are buying lots of additional items. I'm also a buy once cry once kinda guy and the Single stage press fits that mentality. Take a close look at the rigidity of a single stage press compared to a progressive and you'll want your best .308 rounds off the single.

I started on a single and was able to keep myself shooting pistols at least 1.5 times a week, a range trip usually meant 200 to 300 rounds. Batch your reloading and you can make considerable volume. My single stage is a great set up for a collet style bullet puller when something goes wrong. Bonus as the hammers are not as effective.

I have a lowly Hornady LNL progressive press with the case feeder. No doubt it's not a Dillon 650/750 but it cost me half as much on sale and it has been a great press at a great price.

I shot with lots of guys who bought Dillons and we all thought that we'd compete and shoot a lot and forever. Well that's not the case at all. They sold their Dillons and just like every other item on Earth they all took their lumps $$$ wise.

There is no shame or money wasted starting your reloading habit on a single stage. There is also no shame in testing the waters instead of jumping in head first.

Regardless of your purchase decision reloading is fun and really adds to the shooting sports hobby, have fun!
 
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